Anglo-Saxon cultural Revival in England

Have there be an Anglo-Saxon cultural revival, similar to the Gaelic Revival in Ireland but at any time between 1688 and 1914 which aims to bring back England to its Anglo-Saxon past and make English culture and politics more 'Germanic.' In this scenario, it achieves the following changes:
*Makes Anglo-Saxon christian norm in England and does so permamently, replacing names of Norman origin. This affects all classes, urban and rural, equally, including the royal family.
*Makes Edmund the Martyr the patron saint of England and establishes either Alfred the Great, Athelstan or Harold Godwinson as the national hero of England and one of these has to replace King Arthur, who becomes a hero only for the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons.
*Makes the 25th of September (The Battle of Stamford Bridge) or the 20th of November (Edmund the Martyr's martyrdom) England's national day, and it becomes a public holiday
*The White Dragon becomes national flag of England.
*Encourages the adoption and revival of Anglo-Saxon words in English and Anglo-Saxon roots for new words, technologies and scientific vocabulary eg: if this revival happens before the railway age, stop-house would mean station and Penny-farthing would be the normal word for bicycle.
*Has more political terms be Anglo-Saxon. For example, counties become shires, parliaments and councils become moots, the House of Lords/upper houses in general get called the 'Witan, acts are called Writs etc
*Makes Old English more widely learned than latin in the 20th and 21st century classroom
 
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Have there be an Anglo-Saxon cultural revival, similar to the Gaelic Revival in Ireland but at any time between 1688 and 1914 which aims to bring back England to its Anglo-Saxon past and make English culture and politics more 'Germanic.' In this scenario, it achieves the following changes:
*Makes Anglo-Saxon christian norm in England and does so permamently, replacing names of Norman origin. This affects all classes, urban and rural, equally, including the royal family.
*Makes Edmund the Martyr the patron saint of England and establishes either Alfred the Great, Athelstan or Harold Godwinson as the national hero of England and one of these has to replace King Arthur, who becomes a hero only for the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons.
*Makes the 25th of September (The Battle of Stamford Bridge) or the 20th of November (Edmund the Martyr's martyrdom) England's national day, and it becomes a public holiday
*The White Dragon becomes national flag of England.
*Encourages the adoption and revival of Anglo-Saxon words in English and Anglo-Saxon roots for new words, technologies and scientific vocabulary eg: if this revival happens before the railway age, stop-house would mean station and Penny-farthing would be the normal word for bicycle.
*Has more political terms be Anglo-Saxon. For example, counties become shires, parliaments and councils become moots, the House of Lords/upper houses in general get called the 'Witan, acts are called Writs etc
*Makes Old English more widely learned than latin in the 20th and 21st century classroom

Here's a scenario that may interest you:

The U.K., after years of majorly critical sociopolitical strife, loses a *World War, and loses it badly. A civil war breaks out, and Scotland, Wales, and Cornwall(as well as Ireland, if not already independent) have all broken away by 1920. The rump England is left with only the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and maybe Northern Ireland, and many Englishmen are feeling betrayed by the others. A strong Anglo-Saxonist movement begins to develop, and by 1930, is in full swing.

Meanwhile tensions in Europe again grow, as the losers of the last war(let's just go with an Imperial Germany and the Ottoman Empire for this scenario) are strongly desiring revenge against the victors(France, Italy, and a reformist Russia). Late in 1936, the English Parliament welcomes an ambitious young ex-Royal Army soldier(an *Oswald Mosley analogue?), as the country's new P.M., and things almost immediately go downhill. Though not at all an anti-Semite(he at least has no problem with Ashkenazi Jews, as long as they're not lefties, at least.), and is not particularly strongly racist towards people of African descent(including Jewish people of Ethiopian descent), he does, however, have a strong dislike for the Welsh and the Cornish in particular, and views the Scots as misguided fools. More than anything, however, he also has a strong desire to wreak his revenge on the French and the Italians.....which gives him common cause with the German Kaiser and the Ottoman Sultan.

Unfortunately, his support is far from limited to just England; in the United States, he enjoys support from reactionaries on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line, especially in huge chunks of the South(his lack of hardcore racism against those of sub-Saharan descent largely ignored thanks to his anti-French, anti-Italian, and general anti-Catholic prejudice), but even a few in the Northeast and West, as well(primarily amongst the more hardline anti-Mexican bigots).

Meanwhile, the British Empire has been falling apart: Canada has been a totally independent country for a few decades now, New Zealand took in an alternate heir to the British throne, and Australians are deeply divided on who to support, the current King in England, or the Queen in Wellington. Really, of all the most major non-Indian areas, only South Africa and Rhodesia remain loyal to old England, and even then, there is some growing concern in South Africa.

By the end of the decade, the European continent is again, on the brink of war, and any one thing could spark a conflagration, from Germany's designs on the Low Countries and Poland, or the Ottoman Empire's hungrily eyeing the Balkans and Greek Cyrenaica, and England's desires to reunite the U.K. under the Anglo-Saxonist aegis.....the world could be plunged into mayhem once again.
 
If you can only have a POD as early as 1688, then it's kinda hard IMO. Once Shakespeare's era comes about, the concept of pride in England's pre-Norman past was more or less moribund in common circles AIUI until the Victorian Era. Even by then, there was interest in the subject to be sure, but it only sparked enough to result in OTL's overall support of that timeframe and its cultural/linguistic elements, not much more than that (and I'd argue that was split between the influence of Sir Walter Scott, and later Tolkien, than any other factor). The only way I can see it happening to the extent you bring up is if an alt-Napoleonic War sees Britain get stomped, and begin to actively play up its ancient past as a countercultural movement towards being "anything not remotely French-like". If that sounds too far-fetched, the RN rank of Lieutenant was briefly considered too much sounding like Enemy-speak, and the notion of using "Steadholder" as a new Saxon-styled rank did see some discussion in the early 19th. Century. Make them lose badly, and you might see more linguistic and cultural philosophy along those lines.


Y'know, I like you dude, and I know this is something more or less off the top of your head (the bit about Britain falling apart to its base components could serve as a good catalyst for the OP, after all). That being said....uggghhhh. By that, I mean the whole "interest in Germanic culture invariably leads to irredentism and crypto-racism" trope that gets trotted out time and again never ceases to nettle me. If that's not the point of your post (and I don't get the feeling it is), then my bad. It just gets annoying to read repeatedly. Especially since, going off of OTL, if any British group has a proven track record of endemic imperialism/conquest and ethnic oppressiveness, it's the Norman-Angevin-Plantagenet element IMO.
 
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If you can only have a POD as early as 1688, then it's kinda hard IMO. Once Shakespeare's era comes about, the concept of pride in England's pre-Norman past was more or less moribund in common circles AIUI until the Victorian Era. Even by then, there was interest in the subject to be sure, but it only sparked enough to result in OTL's overall support of that timeframe and its cultural/linguistic elements, not much more than that (and I'd argue that was split between the influence of Sir Walter Scott, and later Tolkien, than any other factor). The only way I can see it happening to the extent you bring up is if an alt-Napoleonic War sees Britain get stomped, and begin to actively play up its ancient past as a countercultural movement towards being "anything not remotely French-like". If that sounds too far-fetched, the RN rank of Lieutenant was briefly considered too much sounding like Enemy-speak, and the notion of using "Steadholder" as a new Saxon-styled rank did see some discussion in the early 19th. Century. Make them lose badly, and you might see more linguistic and cultural philosophy along those lines.

Interesting points you bring up here. Can you point me to some sources to look at, btw?

Y'know, I like you dude, and I know this is something more or less off the top of your head (the bit about Britain falling apart to its base components could serve as a good catalyst for the OP, after all). That being said....uggghhhh. By that, I mean the whole "interest in Germanic culture invariably leads to irredentism and crypto-racism" trope that gets trotted out time and again never ceases to nettle me. If that's not the point of your post (and I don't get the feeling it is), then my bad. It just gets annoying to read repeatedly. Especially since, going off of OTL, if any British group has a proven track record of endemic imperialism/conquest and ethnic oppressiveness, it's the Norman-Angevin-Plantagenet element IMO.

Okay, well, no worries, that, most assuredly, was not the intention(though yeah, it's not exactly a totally rare trope, even where old English is concerned.). Honestly, the end product really does truly depend on who starts the trend and why they do so: things can go either way.

Heck, perhaps we could brainstorm a TL in which a Trans-Atlantic revival of old Anglo-Saxon culture is actually spearheaded by egalitarian Debs-type Marxists! :D
 
snip
If that sounds too far-fetched, the RN rank of Lieutenant was briefly considered too much sounding like Enemy-speak, and the notion of using "Steadholder" as a new Saxon-styled rank did see some discussion in the early 19th. Century. snip

Is that why we say "Leftenant"?
 

The problem is I think you are asking for too many, sometimes conflicting, criteria.

Its not like there weren't groups interested in such a revival:

Levellers/Quakers in the 1650s and Chartists in the 1840s and 1850s were interested in removing what they termed the tyranny of the "Norman Yoke" and a return to communalism.

1930s groups like English Mystery and English Array were interested in a more anti-modernity vision of the medieval period. So too, in a less bonkers extreme way, were groups like Young England in the late 19th century.

The whole Arts and Crafts revival of the late victorian era was also a "back to the rural past" ideal that influenced Tolkien, amongst others, in how they viewed the positive world of the "lost past".

The problem is - why would there be such an interest more widely? Some of your objectives (flags, name changes, etc) would require a lot of political effort for essentially cosmetic gain. Considering the uphill struggle for reform in this period (for key issues like women's votes) you would need the Anglo-Saxon period to appeal to a specific existing ideological movement. Celtic revival in Ireland did well because it directly appealed in opposition to English rule.

That said, I like a challenge so here you go:

I think my POD would be the Ulster crisis going "hot" at some point between the 1880s and 1914. Ireland pulls away, independent, and nationalist movements in Scotland and Wales (potentially) are strong enough to wrest free of Westminster themselves as the British state weakens.

Here, I think you would need your Anglo-Saxonism to come from the right. Maybe the labour movement seizes power after the Royal Family is discredited. Colonies are seized in the chaos by rival powers or break free themselves. England is left a rump state, thoroughly discredited and humiliated. Here I suppose you can see some sort of pastoral "Old Aengland" movement emerge on the right in opposition to a left that would be industrial and, if they take power, they build up an identity on the basis of this shared communal (rather than communist) experience of what they think the Anglo Saxon period was like.

Problem is, whilst the Ulster Crisis going hot is not at all ASB, the sheer ramp up required here is very much on unstable historical ground.
 
If you can only have a POD as early as 1688, then it's kinda hard IMO. Once Shakespeare's era comes about, the concept of pride in England's pre-Norman past was more or less moribund in common circles AIUI until the Victorian Era. Even by then, there was interest in the subject to be sure, but it only sparked enough to result in OTL's overall support of that timeframe and its cultural/linguistic elements, not much more than that (and I'd argue that was split between the influence of Sir Walter Scott, and later Tolkien, than any other factor). The only way I can see it happening to the extent you bring up is if an alt-Napoleonic War sees Britain get stomped, and begin to actively play up its ancient past as a countercultural movement towards being "anything not remotely French-like". If that sounds too far-fetched, the RN rank of Lieutenant was briefly considered too much sounding like Enemy-speak, and the notion of using "Steadholder" as a new Saxon-styled rank did see some discussion in the early 19th. Century. Make them lose badly, and you might see more linguistic and cultural philosophy along those lines.



Y'know, I like you dude, and I know this is something more or less off the top of your head (the bit about Britain falling apart to its base components could serve as a good catalyst for the OP, after all). That being said....uggghhhh. By that, I mean the whole "interest in Germanic culture invariably leads to irredentism and crypto-racism" trope that gets trotted out time and again never ceases to nettle me. If that's not the point of your post (and I don't get the feeling it is), then my bad. It just gets annoying to read repeatedly. Especially since, going off of OTL, if any British group has a proven track record of endemic imperialism/conquest and ethnic oppressiveness, it's the Norman-Angevin-Plantagenet element IMO.

I have to agree. A Germanic revival equalling racism is silly.
 
Here's an idea, maybe ASB, maybe not:

WWI is fought between Britain, Germany, and the United States against France, Italy, and Russia. The French lose, but the war creates a new wave of anti-French, pro-German sentiment on both sides of the Atlantic.
In Britain, there is a revival of Anglo-Saxon tradition, with one of the leaders of the movement being Tolkein.
In the US, Americans play up their country's German heritage and downplay its French origins.
 
POD that doesn't have consequences right away would be to include plays like King Alfred[/¡] and Harald Godwinson[/¡] as part of the Shakespeare cannon. This lets the past have more of a place in the consciousness of England.
 
Wouldn't a Shakespeare "Harold Godwinson" be a hatchet job like Macbeth or Richard III? An Alfred the Great play has possibilities!
 
POD that doesn't have consequences right away would be to include plays like King Alfred[/¡] and Harald Godwinson[/¡] as part of the Shakespeare cannon. This lets the past have more of a place in the consciousness of England.


That could be a very dangerous play to write as it would call into question the legitimacy of the crown post conquest.
 
That could be a very dangerous play to write as it would call into question the legitimacy of the crown post conquest.

True, although its not like there isn't precedent. Richard II is performed in 1601 at the orders of the Earl of Essex before he tries to overthrow Elizabeth I
 
Write Godwinson as a tragic figure ala Macbeth who claims the throne Edward the Confessor promised to William.

Alfred would have a lot in common w/ Henry the V-"We few, we lucky few, we sons of Wessex!"
 
I have to agree. A Germanic revival equalling racism is silly.

Quite! I get that we tend to equivalate the two thanks to the Nazi Party, but alternate history need not require Nazism each and every time.


Interesting points you bring up here. Can you point me to some sources to look at, btw?

Okay, well, no worries, that, most assuredly, was not the intention(though yeah, it's not exactly a totally rare trope, even where old English is concerned.). Honestly, the end product really does truly depend on who starts the trend and why they do so: things can go either way.

Heck, perhaps we could brainstorm a TL in which a Trans-Atlantic revival of old Anglo-Saxon culture is actually spearheaded by egalitarian Debs-type Marxists! :D

-Sadly, I can't remember where I read the steadholder thing off the top of my head, but I remember seeing the bit about it before here on an Alternate Ranks topic, as well as (yes, I know) Wikipedia and IIRC the Honor Harrington novels. Given that the Victorians seemed to romanticize their Old English past moreso than before, it doesn't particularly surprise me. Something else that might be of interest WRT a source of pro-Saxon sentiment and styling might be William Barnes, who had studied other languages and had an interest in renewing English's pre-Norman and Renaissance characteristics (not to mention spelling reform). And then there's Thomas Hardy, who might've proven an additional cultural touchstone if Saxonism fanged ahold of the Victorian British zeitgeist moreso than OTL.

-Fair enough, sorry if I seemed nitpicky. And honestly, I kinda like the notion of Saxonism catching on amongst a leftist/agrarian socialist movement, like the Diggers or their ilk!

Is that why we say "Leftenant"?

AIUI that's a holdover from Old French, wherein the "ieu" often labialized into a sorta-f/v sound when spoken quickly; English, tending to enunciate consonants in snell and rapid speech over vowels, retained this feature. Little pronunciation shifts like that happen in language all the time.

Incidentally, in addition/instead of my alt-Diggers idea I like the idea of something like this catching on not necessarily in one of the Anglo Metropoles (i.e. UK or USA), but perhaps somewhere distant and isolated enough for such a notion to not only take root, but be removed from outside influencing factors...a neo-Saxon *New Zealand, anyone? :p
 
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