Anglo-Hapsburg-German Alliance in a War

This sort of relates to WW1, but really the POD is before 1900.

Anyways, around the 1870s Britain was looking for an ally on the Continent for whatever reason. In the end, their shopping turned up with France.

What if they instead went towards the fledging German Empire and Hapsburg Austria (post Napoleon Austria and later Austria-Hungary didn't seem to have a real theme other than everyone nominal loyalty to their sovereign)?

This certainly butterflies away the assassination of the archduke, but the Black hand or a Pan-Slavic terrorist organization might still end up using Serbia as a refuge and end up being sheltered there. The spark or war might be one too many blown up buildings or something else.

Or perhaps there would be no Pan Slavic terrorists (doubtful since it is hard to see how British foreign policy affects this), but France finds some way to justify retaking Lorraine.

My point being, a war between Germany and France is very likely. But then what becomes of the German strategy if it is Germany, Austria, and Britain against France, Italy (they still hate Austria), and Russia (probably still allied with France)?

The OTL plan doesn't work at all. If Britain signs on with Germany, Willhiem is going to have to pinky swear all treaties that Germany and Britain are both part of... including Belgian neutrality. The flanking move is a dud.

How about a direct assault against France? Well, France already built some fortifications. In hindsight, there are three roads (fairly far apart form each other) where a "gap" existed between forts, each allowing troop columns to go through without being molested by fort artillery. But, I don't think anyone knew of them. And even if the Germans tried this, it wouldn't work since the French could just move artillery pieces in. So forget that.

An Anglo-German cooperative invasion of France? Early in the war, Britain couldn't mobilize that many troops, so a knockout punch doesn't seem likely even with a German frontal assault and a Channel Invasion. I don't know about the Mediterranean, but unlike a channel invasion a successful landing in South of France would probably just get TTL British like OTL British in Gallipoli campaign. And even if it didn't, I doubt this would help the Germans much.

Defensive war against France? Germany made OTL plans based on the fact that they expected France and Russia to outlast them in a long war due to issues of food and manpower (and the fact that Russia won't stay behind in military organization forever). So that essentially means hoping Britain bails them out.

My guess is that if Britain allied with the Germans and Austrians, the Germans' plan for a war against France is "make stuff up as we go along since we don't have a working plan"
 
If Britain had allied with the CPs (after which the Dutch may have joined), France and Russia wouldn't have dared to attack. The new alliance could have chosen whether they want to live in peace, or to attack when they thought the time was ready. France and Russia would have been cut up.

But the German diplomats/government/kaiser messed it up, until they had driven Britain towards the Entente.
 
Unless or until, of course, the United States joined the Franco-Russian Entente, highly probable if Britain and Germany are both molesting US shipping.
 
Unless or until, of course, the United States joined the Franco-Russian Entente, highly probable if Britain and Germany are both molesting US shipping.

I don't think so. They had better relations with both Britain and Austria than France pre-war. Especially Britain. I don't really think they would intervene in favor of the British, but I don't think they would join the Entente.

Í guess the Dutch will try to stay neutral what is there to win for them?

Not much. In the 1600s, many of them would have considered themselves Germans as Saxons were (as in, neither of them had a concept of a German state, but back then it appears middle Germans was intelligible with Dutch). The Dutch language drifted a bit since then and when pan-Germanism was going around the NGF, the Netherlands emphasized their own traditions, almost as if to remind themselves they weren't "German." A bit of self consciousness I guess.

If Germany and Britain are part of the same alliance block, the Dutch would favor them, but I don't think enough to join them. If Britain offers colonial concessions from France, maybe. Or maybe... I forgot, who owns Java at this point in time? Didn't the British steal them at some point? If there isn't anything to be gained, then I suspect it would be a "pro-Anglo neutrality" (like OTL USA in 1915) than " pure neutral " (like the Dutch in OTL) but keep their young men out of the fight, except anyone who wants to be a merc.

I really don't think France would just ignore Lorraine. The OTL revachism was strong even before Britain allied with France.
 
highly probable if Britain and Germany are both molesting US shipping.
Why would they? The US wants to make money and trade with everyone and Britain+Germany can more than keep the sea lanes open for such trade, which will make a LOT of money for the US. Sure, the French might be blockaded, but the potential German and British revenue far outweighs that of France.
 
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Why would they? The US wants to make money and trade with everyone and Britain+Germany can more than keep the sea lanes open for such trade, which will make a LOT of money for the US. Sure, the French might be blockaded, but the potential German and British revenue far outweighs that of France.


Couldn't agree more...the USA would without any hesitation gone along with the prevailing wind which was not France or Russia at this time,
 
They still favored the Russians however IIRC; diplomatically they would be inclined to support the Tsar over the Kaiser from what I've read.

Also, there were several incidents involving the USN and Kriegsmarine that could easily have boiled over around the turn of the century, esp. over various Pacific islands in dispute. Might the latter have been more aggressive if it knew it had the RN's support?
 
Couldn't agree more...the USA would without any hesitation gone along with the prevailing wind which was not France or Russia at this time,

Let's not forget we have a 40 year butterfly season here, and that Britain is only going to be actively looking for a continental alliance (as opposed to just favoring/selectively supporting one ) for a very good reason. That requires a more dynamic/successful France and Russia.
 
To answer the original question, I thimk Germany's strategy would be to blockade France with British help while throwing everything they had at Russia. If Russia could be forced into a Brest-Litovsk style peace, then plans could be made for an invasion of France....
 
Let's not forget we have a 40 year butterfly season here, and that Britain is only going to be actively looking for a continental alliance (as opposed to just favoring/selectively supporting one ) for a very good reason. That requires a more dynamic/successful France and Russia.

True. I just think the fuel for a German-French war is still there even if the spark is butterflied away.
 
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