Anglo-Hanoverian TL

[stevep]

Is it likely that the entire navy is going to be concentrated in one area? And landing an A bomb on larger populated cities or industrial areas would give more of an impression....

Temujin

True to a degree but that point has already been made. It will have had an effect on the Japanese operations and moral. The empire can't reach Japan yet and further use on occupied territories without a clear military aim could well be counter-productive. [Alienating the civil population and neutral countries as well as public opinion inside the empire and the material damage to resources].

Using one again a Japanese fleet would probably be very effective IF the carrying a/c has the performance - say a much higher ceiling so it can't easily be intercepted. [Or possibly if the Japanese lack radar to direct CAPs]. A fleet needs to concentrate to both use its own firepower and provide the best defence against A-H conventional air attack. Even a small nuke could do a lot of damage to less armoured units, especially carriers and their a/c and the disruption of their fleet would allow follow up attacks by conventional a/c. It could make a big difference in making a tough battle an overwhelming victory.

Steve

 

[RCTFI]

Good points...

Nice points, everyone. I do think that the Anglo-Hanoverians might use a tactical nuke against the IJN, and indeed that might happen in the next update... but, speaking of the next update, while I appologise for keeping you waiting for so long, I've got AP exams to work on right now, so it'll be a while before I'll be able to make the nice full-scale update or two that will finish off the war. Sorry.

 

[RCTFI]

A Time to Prepare

April 7th: Allied (mostly Anglo-Hanoverian) forces begin preparing a defensive line in northern Vietnam, in order to defend the secured territory from a possible Japanese counter-attack. The idea of moving into China at that point is considered, but is then discarded - to do so would require too many troops. Instead, they decide to continue an island-hopping campaign to reach Japan and force the Japanese to surrender.
April 8th: Preperations begin for another round of advances into Indonesia.
April 9th: Construction of the first proto-type jet aircraft begins in England.
April 10th: Further advances in rocketry are made - a version of the 'Emperor' rockets used on the Eastern Front is modified to be easier to use. As it is a smaller model, it is named the 'King' rocket.
April 11th - 20th: Preperations continue for the impending attacks on Japanese-occupied areas of Indonesia. In England, more work is done on the idea of a jet aircraft.
April 21st: Elements of the Royal Navy engage elements of the Imperial Japanese Navy in the Second Battle of the South China Sea - this time, the result is a massacre of the Japanese, as the Anglo-Hanoverians rain death down upon them... death in the form of a single atomic bomb, to be specific. The Japanese lose three battleships and one carrier, as well as a number of lighter ships and aircraft. The Anglo-Hanoverians, on the other hand, lose only 47 fighters and bombers.
April 22nd: Shocked at their naval losses, the Japanese begin a withdrawl from New Guinea, hoping to be better able to resist the Anglo-Hanoverian attacks on the rest of the Indonesian islands.
April 23rd: Preperations continue for the invasion of Borneo, some Anglo-Hanoverian light ships enter the Banda Sea.
April 24th: The first jet aircraft flies for the first time - a success. The Anglo-Hanoverian military commissions a study on how to utilize jet aircraft in warfare, specifically in the Pacific.
April 25th: The Battle of The Banda Sea - Anglo-Hanoverian ships catch a Japanese troop convoy in the Banda Sea. The convoy was protected by eight destroyers, and the Anglo-Hanoverian attackers consisted of six destroyers and a pair of cruisers.
They attack the convoy, and do quite well, although they lose one of the cruisers to a Japanese submarine. 6,000 Japanese soldiers are killed when the troop transports are sunk.
April 26th: The Anglo-Hanoverian High Command is presented with a paper on the possibilities of jet aircraft in combat, and of how the currently available designs might be used. Suitably impressed, they request further designs, and begin contemplating how to properly apply jet technology to their plans.
April 27th: Heavy bombing of Borneo begins.
April 28th: The Anglo-Hanoverian High Command recieves two designs, one for a jet fighter (the VKRM-1, or Vickers-Krupp Rocket Model One) and one for a bomber. (The VKRMB-1, or Vickers-Krupp Rocket Model Bomber One). They approve the design for the Rocket Model fighter almost immediatly, and request a new bomber design.
April 29th - 30th: As massively heavy bombing of Borneo continues, Anglo-Hanoverian forces land on New Guinea, retaking it without a fight.
In England, aircraft factories begin retooling to build the VKRM-1, newly named the "Lion."

May 1st: The Anglo-Hanoverian government demands the unconditional surrender of the Japanese government. They refuse, of course.
Troop ships move towards Borneo...
May 2nd: As the bombing of Borneo continues, a massive naval bombardment smashes Japanese positions on the shore.
Troops begin landing at about two in the afternoon.
Although they encounter fierce initial resistance, and lose almost 2,000 men taking the beachhead, by four the beachhead is secured and 28,000 men are on the beach.
May 3rd: Another 30,000 Anglo-Hanoverian troops land on Borneo.
May 4th: Japanese troops attempt a counter-attack, a "Bonsai" charge. Most of their tanks (few and not very well designed) also take part in this charge.
The result is a day of fierce fighting, with the Anglo-Hanoverians begin pushed back almost into the sea, but with constant support from the fleet and from the air, and with another 20,000 troops landing as the fighting occured, the Japanese are forced to cease their attack and admit defeat. Losses were about 6,000 Anglo-Hanoverian and 35,000 Japanese.
May 5th: Anglo-Hanoverian forces on Borneo regroup, and another 22,000 troops are brought ashore.
May 6th: The push north begins, with Anglo-Hanoverian KA-II tanks leading the way. With almost all of their Japanese counterparts destroyed, and with few Japanese anti-tank weapons available to the defenders, their advance is limited only by the terrain and by the speed of the tanks.
May 7th: The Japanese defenders of Borneo try to make a stand along a line of fortifications - they fail as Anglo-Hanoverian armour rolls over their lines, ignoring machinegun fire and washing away their positions with flamethrowers.
In this one day, only about 450 Anglo-Hanoverians die, compared with nearly 6,000 Japanese.
May 8th: Japanese troops begin leaving Borneo and the island of Sulawesi.
May 9th - 20th: Anglo-Hanoverian troops secure Borneo, fighting a fierce war of ambush with the Japanese rear-guards.
May 21st: Borneo is secured.
May 22nd: The first 'Lion' jet fighters roll off the assembly line.
May 23rd: A decision is made to shift production of traditional fighters to production of jet fighters, even though it will result in a temporary drop in productivity.
May 24th: A jet bomber design is finally approved. The new bomber design has the designation P-1, although the actual name given to it is Pheonix.
May 25th: Preperations begin for the invasion of the Philipines. In Canada, Canadian troops strengthen the garrisons on the Aeleutian Islands and prepare for the possibility of an invasion of the increasingly anarchic Siberia, with the long-term goal being to secure the Kamchatka Peninsula, which the Japanese had annexed. However, that plan is not taken seriously.
May 26th - 30th: Preperations for the invasion of the Philipines continue.

 

[RCTFI]

Comments?

Well? Comments? I've taken time from my busy schedual to write this up... anyone want to comment?

 

[Quiet_Man]

It's going well, I'm a little surprised no-one in the A-H has come up with an idea similar to a V1.

Nabbing Kamchatka is good, especially if they can get Siberia too, even as a "protectorate" They wont know about the resources as yet, but cutting off the USSR from the pacific as well as the Baltic is good long term strategy.

 

[Bmao]

Considering your latest Anglo-Hanoverian campaign in the pacific, I must admit that it's too wank. It was unbelievable enough they were able to conclude a successful barbarossa campaign, after Germany was basically thrown back to the feudal age and then slogging up through European Russia, while suffering something like 5 million dead and many more wounded to accomplish it. You also mention that while the Anglo-Hanoverians are working their way northeast from the East Indies, they are also starting to plan another major campaign in Siberia. The AH is already fighting on the other side of the world, and even with all its colonies that's a logistical feat that I don't think they would be capable of.

Here's another example, would you think that the US in OTL, had it had both Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan all as enemies, be able to conquer all three nations? That's the type of scenario that Anglo-Hanover was placed in, and it doesn't have the industrial capacity or the amount of effective manpower as the US in OTL had. (I rougly estimate that Anglo-Hanover has somewhere on the order of 80-100 million in terms of population). At this point, even a loss ratio of about 4-5 to 1 would work to the advantage of the Japanese.

As for the homefront, even with the AH's going from success to success, it seems that sometime in the near future, the populace is going to crack. With so many men at the front, who will be producing the weapons? Yes, maybe you could use the subjects from Britains colonies, but there are fewer people available to develop new technologies, since most of the British, Scottish and Hanoverian manpower are serving abroad.


In terms of campaining, it seems like the Anglo-Hanoverians can do no wrong, sort of like the Draka where they go from success to success and they always have equal or superior weaponry than their opponents. Also, you have the Japanese forces campaigning as if they were the dumb, slant-eyed monkeys whose only strategy is the suicidal samaurai charge, true the Japanese did that a lot, but they weren't stupid.

Campaign in Borneo- You mention armored warfare in Borneo, but the terrain makes this type of warfare extremely limited. Borneo is a dense jungle, and it is also mountainous. The Guadalcanal campaign took the US six months to fully secure, and that island is quite tiny in comparison to Borneo, which is the 3rd largest island in the world. Also, for another comparison, it took the US from the summer of 1944 all the way up to the end of the war to fully secure the Phillipines. Yes, the Japanese are inferior in quality to the AH's, but still I imagine that it would take them longer than the 1 month you have in this TL.

Also, you have the Anglo-Hanoverians taking one month to design a jet fighter from scratch and put it into production. Maybe as a surprise you can have the Japanese deploying jet aircraft before the Anglo-Hanoverians can? The Japanese also have good submarines, and seeing that they have not been damaged as much as they have been previously to the start of major operations between the Japanese and the AH, their production capacity would be higher. Personally, I would like to see a settled peace between A-H and Japan, and have a multipolar post-war world.

 

[stevep]

RCTFI

I would have to agree with Bmao that you have too large a death-toll on both sides in the conflict with the Russian state. This would have gutted just about any state and given the other conflicts the A-H were involved in. He also has a good point about the terrain in parts of the far east, especially Borneo, being frequently unsuitable for armoured/mechanised combat. Less concerned about the Japanese tactics as what I have read does suggest that the Japanese often spent much of their strength in fairly futile counter attacks against the US forces massed firepower in such ways. Think this was one reason that Iwo Jima was such a tough battle as while he survived the Japanese commander managed to make sure the Japanese didn't to this anything like as much so they had to be dug out.

One BIG problem is the rate of development of some of the equipment in your scenario. Even if a skilled government with good technical support made the right decision it would still take a lot longer to develop a lot of the weapons you have developing on all sides. Let alone retooling assembly lines to start large scale construction. Things can be done a lot quicker in the emergency of a major war but not that much faster.

Less concerned about producing the weapons as there were be pools of labour that can keep the factories turning, most especially the mass recruiting of women for many jobs that occurred in the allied powers historically. However I think the home front would be buckling under the social impact of the sort of losses you have seen inflicted. Think Bmao is somewhat off on the total population level. With Britain, much of Germany and the Netherlands as the core state I could see a population in the region of 120-150M in this time period. Even so the ~5M fatalities for the Russian campaign would be crippling, especially as they would be accompanied but similar or larger numbers of wounded, some of which would be seriously incapacitating or long term.

If I remember rightly in your WWI equivalent there was some criticism that many battle reports had too small casualty lists. Suspect you have rather over-compensated in the WWII and if you redid the scenario at some time hopefully you could moderate both extremes somewhat.

On the campaign against Japan I think you are following a good general policy. Would recommend a couple of points.
a) The A-H would probably want to reconsider some operation in China. Since parts of it has the flat open land suitable for the armoured warfare they excel at a small-medium force co-operating with larger Chinese armies could probably cause the Japanese a lot of grief fairly easily. Alternatively just rely on industrial output and pump weapons into China. Even if as crippled by corruption and infighting as OTL China has so many people they will cause the Japanese serious problems and much heavier casualties with more and better weapons.

b) I would forget about a northern route or Kamchatka. The weather is too appalling to have the logistical ability to sustain serious operations in the area. Also the peninsula is an arctic wilderness studded with volcanoes so has little real value.

c) Possibly also consider more effort on starving the Japanese out, especially as a way to reduce A-H casualties. With possession of much of the Dutch Indies and controlling the seas and airs around the rest you can strong the Japanese getting the supplies they need from them. Also they will probably have the historical weakness in terms of neglecting things like ASW in favour of the 'aggressive' elements. You might have problems with Japan getting supplies from the US but if some solution can be found to that Japan can be crippled as a major military and economic power pretty quickly, effectively and cheaply.

d) What are the Japanese doing to respond to the situation. Presuming a similar development of an highly militarised dictatorship then I would expect increasingly desperate resistance and probably kamikazes to appear soon if not already. Also, before the A-H insist of unconditional surrender has there been any sign that the Japanese might agree to a suitable lesser situation. [Say withdrawal from A-H conquest ions and China and limitations on their military and reparations possibly]. Unlikely anything like OTL WWII Japan would but making the effort would be politically useful, both on the home front and with neutrals and allies.

Hope I don't sound too negative. A lot of interesting ideas and of course I like the scenario. However a bit too OTT on a few points.

Steve

 

[RCTFI]

Alright...

Considering your latest Anglo-Hanoverian campaign in the pacific, I must admit that it's too wank. It was unbelievable enough they were able to conclude a successful barbarossa campaign, after Germany was basically thrown back to the feudal age and then slogging up through European Russia, while suffering something like 5 million dead and many more wounded to accomplish it. You also mention that while the Anglo-Hanoverians are working their way northeast from the East Indies, they are also starting to plan another major campaign in Siberia. The AH is already fighting on the other side of the world, and even with all its colonies that's a logistical feat that I don't think they would be capable of.

Here's another example, would you think that the US in OTL, had it had both Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan all as enemies, be able to conquer all three nations? That's the type of scenario that Anglo-Hanover was placed in, and it doesn't have the industrial capacity or the amount of effective manpower as the US in OTL had. (I rougly estimate that Anglo-Hanover has somewhere on the order of 80-100 million in terms of population). At this point, even a loss ratio of about 4-5 to 1 would work to the advantage of the Japanese.

As for the homefront, even with the AH's going from success to success, it seems that sometime in the near future, the populace is going to crack. With so many men at the front, who will be producing the weapons? Yes, maybe you could use the subjects from Britains colonies, but there are fewer people available to develop new technologies, since most of the British, Scottish and Hanoverian manpower are serving abroad.


In terms of campaining, it seems like the Anglo-Hanoverians can do no wrong, sort of like the Draka where they go from success to success and they always have equal or superior weaponry than their opponents. Also, you have the Japanese forces campaigning as if they were the dumb, slant-eyed monkeys whose only strategy is the suicidal samaurai charge, true the Japanese did that a lot, but they weren't stupid.

Campaign in Borneo- You mention armored warfare in Borneo, but the terrain makes this type of warfare extremely limited. Borneo is a dense jungle, and it is also mountainous. The Guadalcanal campaign took the US six months to fully secure, and that island is quite tiny in comparison to Borneo, which is the 3rd largest island in the world. Also, for another comparison, it took the US from the summer of 1944 all the way up to the end of the war to fully secure the Phillipines. Yes, the Japanese are inferior in quality to the AH's, but still I imagine that it would take them longer than the 1 month you have in this TL.

Also, you have the Anglo-Hanoverians taking one month to design a jet fighter from scratch and put it into production. Maybe as a surprise you can have the Japanese deploying jet aircraft before the Anglo-Hanoverians can? The Japanese also have good submarines, and seeing that they have not been damaged as much as they have been previously to the start of major operations between the Japanese and the AH, their production capacity would be higher. Personally, I would like to see a settled peace between A-H and Japan, and have a multipolar post-war world.

RCTFI

I would have to agree with Bmao that you have too large a death-toll on both sides in the conflict with the Russian state. This would have gutted just about any state and given the other conflicts the A-H were involved in. He also has a good point about the terrain in parts of the far east, especially Borneo, being frequently unsuitable for armoured/mechanised combat. Less concerned about the Japanese tactics as what I have read does suggest that the Japanese often spent much of their strength in fairly futile counter attacks against the US forces massed firepower in such ways. Think this was one reason that Iwo Jima was such a tough battle as while he survived the Japanese commander managed to make sure the Japanese didn't to this anything like as much so they had to be dug out.

One BIG problem is the rate of development of some of the equipment in your scenario. Even if a skilled government with good technical support made the right decision it would still take a lot longer to develop a lot of the weapons you have developing on all sides. Let alone retooling assembly lines to start large scale construction. Things can be done a lot quicker in the emergency of a major war but not that much faster.

Less concerned about producing the weapons as there were be pools of labour that can keep the factories turning, most especially the mass recruiting of women for many jobs that occurred in the allied powers historically. However I think the home front would be buckling under the social impact of the sort of losses you have seen inflicted. Think Bmao is somewhat off on the total population level. With Britain, much of Germany and the Netherlands as the core state I could see a population in the region of 120-150M in this time period. Even so the ~5M fatalities for the Russian campaign would be crippling, especially as they would be accompanied but similar or larger numbers of wounded, some of which would be seriously incapacitating or long term.

If I remember rightly in your WWI equivalent there was some criticism that many battle reports had too small casualty lists. Suspect you have rather over-compensated in the WWII and if you redid the scenario at some time hopefully you could moderate both extremes somewhat.

On the campaign against Japan I think you are following a good general policy. Would recommend a couple of points.
a) The A-H would probably want to reconsider some operation in China. Since parts of it has the flat open land suitable for the armoured warfare they excel at a small-medium force co-operating with larger Chinese armies could probably cause the Japanese a lot of grief fairly easily. Alternatively just rely on industrial output and pump weapons into China. Even if as crippled by corruption and infighting as OTL China has so many people they will cause the Japanese serious problems and much heavier casualties with more and better weapons.

b) I would forget about a northern route or Kamchatka. The weather is too appalling to have the logistical ability to sustain serious operations in the area. Also the peninsula is an arctic wilderness studded with volcanoes so has little real value.

c) Possibly also consider more effort on starving the Japanese out, especially as a way to reduce A-H casualties. With possession of much of the Dutch Indies and controlling the seas and airs around the rest you can strong the Japanese getting the supplies they need from them. Also they will probably have the historical weakness in terms of neglecting things like ASW in favour of the 'aggressive' elements. You might have problems with Japan getting supplies from the US but if some solution can be found to that Japan can be crippled as a major military and economic power pretty quickly, effectively and cheaply.

d) What are the Japanese doing to respond to the situation. Presuming a similar development of an highly militarised dictatorship then I would expect increasingly desperate resistance and probably kamikazes to appear soon if not already. Also, before the A-H insist of unconditional surrender has there been any sign that the Japanese might agree to a suitable lesser situation. [Say withdrawal from A-H conquest ions and China and limitations on their military and reparations possibly]. Unlikely anything like OTL WWII Japan would but making the effort would be politically useful, both on the home front and with neutrals and allies.

Hope I don't sound too negative. A lot of interesting ideas and of course I like the scenario. However a bit too OTT on a few points.

Steve

You know... I think you're right.

To be honest, I started this TL with good intentions, to create an interesting and plausible piece, but it's just gotten out of hand. I guess it's just that I've come to like the Anglo-Hanoverians too much...
I think the quality of the TL has indeed gone sharply down hill, and I'd like to appologise for that.
Perhaps later when I have more time than I do now I'll come back to it and rewrite the... well, pretty mcuh everything from the start of WWII on, to make it plausible. Sorry about... well, sorry for producing something that, now viewed objectively, seems to be approaching Harry Harrison in both implausibility and wank-iness... although I hope you'll not compare my writing style to his...
Basically, sorry. I'll try to rewrite it later, since I believe that the basic premise is good, but for now I'm going to basically agree with your criticisms and halt the TL until such time as major revisions can be made. Again, appologies.

(That said, I'd like to defend myself on a couple of points - the idea of the invasion of Siberia from Canada was, I'd thought, fairly clearly explained as an out-there idea that was ony vaguely being considered... and, well, there are a few other points I'd make if I wasn't agreeing with the main points of your criticisms and agreeing to halt and eventually rewrite the TL.)

Basically, that's all. I hope I haven't turned you off on my writing with this latest bit. I want to do a good job. Thanks for pointing out the problems with my TL, and preventing me from going on to further weirdness.

Someone said something about the mark of a good friend being his willingness to point out your mistakes... well, under that criteria, you're good friends. Thanks, and sorry for screwing up the TL.

In my defense, this is my first proper TL...

 

[Temujin]

Well its good that you can admit your mistakes and this can only make you a better writer. I'm glad that you've started to tone down AH losses at the moment.

In your re write you may want to consider changing a few things (I am just suggesting some ideas I have, don't bite as this is all new to me)

• I found the French where far too resistance in this TL, and that they managed to fight on the scale that they did despite a large part of their economy and industrial capability being hurt. And they are even weaker than they where in OTL...
• The best possible thing for AH would be to have the USA on their. This would solve a lot of the manpower problem (should come into effect sometime around fighting Russia). I'm sure you can cause some way of alliance
• If think you should let Russia's Red Army live up to its reputation . By this I mean, make it a lot worse. I was never fond of the Red Army, and it should not perform so greatly against AH. In WW2 it was only after suffering great defeats, learning from its mistakes and fighting a weak Germany that it started performing greatly. And it does not have these factors in this TL so...

Well thats all folks

 

[Bmao]

Well its good that you can admit your mistakes and this can only make you a better writer. I'm glad that you've started to tone down AH losses at the moment.

In your re write you may want to consider changing a few things (I am just suggesting some ideas I have, don't bite as this is all new to me)

• I found the French where far too resistance in this TL, and that they managed to fight on the scale that they did despite a large part of their economy and industrial capability being hurt. And they are even weaker than they where in OTL...
• The best possible thing for AH would be to have the USA on their. This would solve a lot of the manpower problem (should come into effect sometime around fighting Russia). I'm sure you can cause some way of alliance
• If think you should let Russia's Red Army live up to its reputation . By this I mean, make it a lot worse. I was never fond of the Red Army, and it should not perform so greatly against AH. In WW2 it was only after suffering great defeats, learning from its mistakes and fighting a weak Germany that it started performing greatly. And it does not have these factors in this TL so...

Well thats all folks

A US/AH alliance, though it would be convenient, would still be quite iffy because of the North American War that took place only 20 years earlier.

After defeating the Soviet Union in a grudge match, I would think that the AH'ers would say, enough, we beat the main bad guy. They would probably want some sort of armistice or negotiated peace with the Japs, simply because they're worn out.

Even if the Red Army isn't up to the caliber of what it was in OTL and was suffering from internal disintegration, I still think it should have taken longer for the AH'ers to get all the way to Moscow and Stalingrad (August to December, basically it would have to be the 'all we have to do is break down the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down'). Consider, the Soviets have been fighting the AH's for a year and a half up to the date, and also they're trying to take out the Ottoman empire at the same time. Say what you will about the Ottomans, they will at least divert enough manpower to prevent the AH'ers from taking Soviet Russia as quickly as they did.

There is also the question of logistics.

Though AH probably possesses more motorized transport than Nazi Germany did, its nowhere near as much as the US in OTL could have fielded, and not only that their main industrial centers are much further away than Nazi Germany's were.

That's the suggestions I have for now, hope that RCTFI continues this TL, but not as wank as before.

 

[RCTFI]

Thanks!

Well its good that you can admit your mistakes and this can only make you a better writer. I'm glad that you've started to tone down AH losses at the moment.

In your re write you may want to consider changing a few things (I am just suggesting some ideas I have, don't bite as this is all new to me)

• I found the French where far too resistance in this TL, and that they managed to fight on the scale that they did despite a large part of their economy and industrial capability being hurt. And they are even weaker than they where in OTL...
• The best possible thing for AH would be to have the USA on their. This would solve a lot of the manpower problem (should come into effect sometime around fighting Russia). I'm sure you can cause some way of alliance
• If think you should let Russia's Red Army live up to its reputation . By this I mean, make it a lot worse. I was never fond of the Red Army, and it should not perform so greatly against AH. In WW2 it was only after suffering great defeats, learning from its mistakes and fighting a weak Germany that it started performing greatly. And it does not have these factors in this TL so...

Well thats all folks

A US/AH alliance, though it would be convenient, would still be quite iffy because of the North American War that took place only 20 years earlier.

After defeating the Soviet Union in a grudge match, I would think that the AH'ers would say, enough, we beat the main bad guy. They would probably want some sort of armistice or negotiated peace with the Japs, simply because they're worn out.

Even if the Red Army isn't up to the caliber of what it was in OTL and was suffering from internal disintegration, I still think it should have taken longer for the AH'ers to get all the way to Moscow and Stalingrad (August to December, basically it would have to be the 'all we have to do is break down the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down'). Consider, the Soviets have been fighting the AH's for a year and a half up to the date, and also they're trying to take out the Ottoman empire at the same time. Say what you will about the Ottomans, they will at least divert enough manpower to prevent the AH'ers from taking Soviet Russia as quickly as they did.

There is also the question of logistics.

Though AH probably possesses more motorized transport than Nazi Germany did, its nowhere near as much as the US in OTL could have fielded, and not only that their main industrial centers are much further away than Nazi Germany's were.

That's the suggestions I have for now, hope that RCTFI continues this TL, but not as wank as before.

Thanks for the comments. I'm glad to see that people are interested in my TL. As far as the re-write is concerned, I think I'm going to probably go back to about the high point of the Russians (Poland overrun etc.) and maybe tone down their victories a bit, as Temujin suggested. I don't know exactly what I'm going to change just yet, and considering the size of the rewriting, I'm probably going to start the rewriting sometime the week after next, since next week is exams week for me.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. Bmao, thanks for the reminder about travel times. If you know where I could find something that would help me calculate how quickly a 1940s army could move, I'd appreciate it. A third time, thanks.

 

[stevep]

You know... I think you're right.

To be honest, I started this TL with good intentions, to create an interesting and plausible piece, but it's just gotten out of hand. I guess it's just that I've come to like the Anglo-Hanoverians too much...
I think the quality of the TL has indeed gone sharply down hill, and I'd like to appologise for that.
Perhaps later when I have more time than I do now I'll come back to it and rewrite the... well, pretty mcuh everything from the start of WWII on, to make it plausible. Sorry about... well, sorry for producing something that, now viewed objectively, seems to be approaching Harry Harrison in both implausibility and wank-iness... although I hope you'll not compare my writing style to his...
Basically, sorry. I'll try to rewrite it later, since I believe that the basic premise is good, but for now I'm going to basically agree with your criticisms and halt the TL until such time as major revisions can be made. Again, appologies.

(That said, I'd like to defend myself on a couple of points - the idea of the invasion of Siberia from Canada was, I'd thought, fairly clearly explained as an out-there idea that was ony vaguely being considered... and, well, there are a few other points I'd make if I wasn't agreeing with the main points of your criticisms and agreeing to halt and eventually rewrite the TL.)

Basically, that's all. I hope I haven't turned you off on my writing with this latest bit. I want to do a good job. Thanks for pointing out the problems with my TL, and preventing me from going on to further weirdness.

Someone said something about the mark of a good friend being his willingness to point out your mistakes... well, under that criteria, you're good friends. Thanks, and sorry for screwing up the TL.

In my defense, this is my first proper TL...

RCTFI

It been quite an interesting one with a lot of ideas. For a 1st one a very good attempt. As Temujin says its good that you realise yourself it was getting a bit out of hand. If/when you do redo it I would be glad to read it again. However probably best to take a break and relax for a while. While I've never published one I have generated a fair number of TL's for my own consumption and know how much they can take over your life.

In your WWII I think Bmao has the right idea in that I doubt the A-H would go quite that much out for blood, although the atrocities that Stalin committed would cause a lot of anger. Think they would have been more willing to negotiate with one of the successor elements once Stalin fell to end the war.

He also has a point about the US. Temujin is right that they would be a very valuable ally in such a war. However both distrust after the previous conflict and simple concern about how powerful the A-H has become by the end of the conflict make an alliance with the US unlikely, except possibly in the early stages when it looks to be struggling and some balance of power factors might play the other way. [I.e. that the US finds a continued A-H as the lesser evil than a clear victory by its opponents].

Steve

 

[Temujin]

Wow I'm glad to see people have used some of my input for the first time

I'm guessing it would be difficult to get America to enter the war on AH's side, as they made find it hard to overcome their differences.

But it may only take a few finely tunned events to turn public opinion onto the side of AH, such as showing atrocities committed by the Russia and Japan (in OTL in WW2 this was a good way of winning over America to side with Britain, such as showing devastation of bombing raids by Nazis).

Also perhaps Japan having a more aggressive stance to the USA, maybe Japanese navy accidentally destroy some American shipping which angers the American populace. Also (as mentioned before) having AH give back some former territory to sweeten the deal.

Just a few thoughts anyway. Peace out

 

[RCTFI]

Thanks!

Thanks for all of the advice. After some consideration (during times when I should really probably have been studying for AP exams) I came up with the following basic outline of changes:

- Reduce the number of big, Kursk size, battles from eight or nine to only three or four.
- Have the Russians etc. perform even less well than originally.
- Have the war start over the Russian invasion of Finland, which leads to Finland always being in the war, and to a Winter War type scenario.
- Have the Americans begin being neutral in favor of the Anglo-Hanoverian Empire sometime during the fight with Russia, the Ottoman Empire and Spain, then become an Anglo-Hanoverian ally over some Japanese badness before the main campaign against the Japanese begins.

I still see this leading to a primarily Anglo-Hanoverian victory over the Soviet Union and the Ottoman Empire, followed by the Anglo-Hanoverians getting the bomb first and using it two or three times against Spain to force a Spanish surrender before facing off against Japan. I'm seeing the Anglo-Hanoverians liberating Vietnam from the Japanese (with the help of the Vietnamese, of course) and possibly some fighting between the RN and the IJN, but then the Americans are going to come into the war and it's going to get ugly for the Japanese, with something along the lines of the OTL island-hopping campaign, except also with some Indonesian action, mostly conducted by Anglo-Hanoverian colonial troops.
One of the side things from their heavy use of colonial troops will be the begining of the industrialization of India, something which I hope to use to creat a situation where the Indians feel less hostile towards the Anglo-Hanoverians than they OTLy did towards the British Empire, perhaps something that can be used to make India evolve into A Dominion like Canada as opposed to its (admittedly peaceful) exit of the British Empire.

Well? What do you think?

 

[Quiet_Man]

Thanks for all of the advice. After some consideration (during times when I should really probably have been studying for AP exams) I came up with the following basic outline of changes:

- Reduce the number of big, Kursk size, battles from eight or nine to only three or four.
- Have the Russians etc. perform even less well than originally.
- Have the war start over the Russian invasion of Finland, which leads to Finland always being in the war, and to a Winter War type scenario.
- Have the Americans begin being neutral in favor of the Anglo-Hanoverian Empire sometime during the fight with Russia, the Ottoman Empire and Spain, then become an Anglo-Hanoverian ally over some Japanese badness before the main campaign against the Japanese begins.

I still see this leading to a primarily Anglo-Hanoverian victory over the Soviet Union and the Ottoman Empire, followed by the Anglo-Hanoverians getting the bomb first and using it two or three times against Spain to force a Spanish surrender before facing off against Japan. I'm seeing the Anglo-Hanoverians liberating Vietnam from the Japanese (with the help of the Vietnamese, of course) and possibly some fighting between the RN and the IJN, but then the Americans are going to come into the war and it's going to get ugly for the Japanese, with something along the lines of the OTL island-hopping campaign, except also with some Indonesian action, mostly conducted by Anglo-Hanoverian colonial troops.
One of the side things from their heavy use of colonial troops will be the begining of the industrialization of India, something which I hope to use to creat a situation where the Indians feel less hostile towards the Anglo-Hanoverians than they OTLy did towards the British Empire, perhaps something that can be used to make India evolve into A Dominion like Canada as opposed to its (admittedly peaceful) exit of the British Empire.

Well? What do you think?

Works for me, especially the India Dominion part, that could be used to sweeten the deal of Indian colonial troops having to be used in large numbers. Also having the viceroy of India consult with Indian political leaders with this offer instead of unilaterally declaring war (as the viceroy did against the Nazi's) will help keep the Indians onside as the Jewel of the Empire.

 

[RCTFI]

Nice idea...

Works for me, especially the India Dominion part, that could be used to sweeten the deal of Indian colonial troops having to be used in large numbers. Also having the viceroy of India consult with Indian political leaders with this offer instead of unilaterally declaring war (as the viceroy did against the Nazi's) will help keep the Indians onside as the Jewel of the Empire.

Nice idea. Thanks for the suggestion on how to preserve the Indian connection with the Empire.

 

[Temujin]

Yes nice ideas. You should take some time off to study (its important!!!) when our hero is fully rested you can begin again

 

[RCTFI]

Alright...

Okay, my first (of three) APs is done, and I've already gotten a book (Stalin's Folly) for use as a source on the situation in Russia. I expect the rewriting to begin sometime this upcoming weekend.

 

[RCTFI]

Well...

Well, my second AP (the last one is on wednesday next week) is done. I've done some reading, and I think I'll try to post the re-done begining of WWII sometime this weekend. In fact, perhaps even today...

 

[stevep]

Well, my second AP (the last one is on wednesday next week) is done. I've done some reading, and I think I'll try to post the re-done begining of WWII sometime this weekend. In fact, perhaps even today...

RCTFI

One thought that occurred to me. It might help keep the war going in Russia to a conclusion and the allies sustain such heavy casualties. [Although I would still tone them down a bit]. If once the war goes clearly against Russia but Stalin is determined to fight to the bitter end one of his generals does a Vaslov. If the A-H's start recruiting 'free' Russian forces that would provide the manpower to help in the final campaigns. Also it would give the remaining 'Soviet' leaders reason to fight on after Stalin is finally overthrown as the A-H decide [or the remaining communists believe they have decided] to go with their puppet/ally and hence no future for them in making peace.

Anyway, good look with the exams. One good thing about being my age is that that's not something I'm likely to have to worry about again.

Steve