Anglo-German-American alliance before 1914?

Anaxagoras

Banned
An Anglo-German alliance is easily done, but getting the Americans included is considerably more difficult.
 
I have trouble imagining it without some serious changes to the earlier time line. Nineteenth century and early twentieth century America was rather isolationist with its main interests in the Western Hemisphere. Prior to WW I there was no strong anti - German sentiment but there was no great pro sentiment either. What would cause the US to agree to an alliance with Imperial Germany? Fear of the British Empire?

I think you would need a POD in the back end of the 19th century to make this a real possibility. Perhaps the British might have tried to intervene in the Spanish - American War? Anger and resentment towards England is only possible justification I can see.
 
I'm sorry, I misread the Anglo part of the question. An Anglo - German alliance is easy as for most of the 19th century France, not Germany was the traditional enemy. All that is really required is for Kaiser Willhelm to come to an agreement about the size of he High Seas Fleet; about one third of the Royal Navy's ships would be a reasonable compromise. Also have his personality be just a little friendlier towards the UK and less confrontational. With France as the traditional enemy and British concerns over Russian ambitions in the Balkans and towards India an alliance with Germany would make good sense whenever they were ready to give up their splendid isolation.

The problem is still America. At this time the US had no alliances and wanted none. I could easily see greater trade with UK and Germany and better relations. But what would drive them to actuially form a binding alliance? Making a commitment like that to Europe would not have been popular and would have represented a one sided obligatrion with no clear benefit.

There was interest in China and Latin America was the US's sphere of influence, but there were no colonial objectives to warrant going to war with anyone. Cetainly I can't imagine any scenario where the French Republic or Russian Empire were seen as a threat.

There is really no compelling argument why the US would join an alliance with UK and Germany.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
How about this: the French effort to gain control of Mexico in the 1860s succeeds and the Franco-Prussian War is either avoided or ends in France's favor, allowing the Second Empire to continue. Germany still unifies, though.

Buoyed by its success in Mexico, France starts throwing its weight around in the Caribbean and Latin America just as it is in Africa and Asia. It secures an alliance with Russia, Austria-Hungary, and Italy to counter the threat of Germany in Europe and Britain in the imperial game, thus driving those two countries together.

The United States, fearful of the French threat right on their doorstep, abandon their policy of isolationism and embrace the Anglo-German alliance.

NOTE: The POD required for this is a pre-1900 one.
 
Those are some pretty significant changes. No Franco-Prussian War? How exactly does Germany unify? Does it have the same borders? Are the south German states, especially Saxony and Bavaria, still a part of the Second Reich? Is this still Bismark's creation? An authoritarian, conservantive empire centered on Prussia? What are the effects on Austria or Austria - Hugary?

Now if Mexico were a French puppet and they had a strong presence in the Carribean and Latin America I could see them being viewed as a real threat. Before TR got the Panama Canal dug a French company was trying to do it. They eventually gave up on the project, but if in this time line they succeeded a French operated Panama Canal would be quite a prize.

A stronger France (weaker Germany?) with a canal and a presence on the Souhtern border? That just might be enough to make an alliance look attractive.
 
A stronger France (weaker Germany?) with a canal and a presence on the Souhtern border? That just might be enough to make an alliance look attractive.

Not only that but a stronger France and a weaker Germany makes an Anglo-German alliance much more likely as well as Britian would not want France in a position to dominate Europe.
 
I would say that it is ASB. France don't have the manpower nor the will to be in a position to achieve european hegemony Germany is and the British will always go against any power that could achieve it. Not matter what family royal link there are. You need a serious POD to change this. And a stronger France might even butterfly away the german unification.
 
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Have Frederick III survive, and a German- British alliance could indeed have been possible.

While a typically used POD there is nothing to support the idea that Frederick III would be liberal except wishful thinking of how things ended up under his son.

In general an Anglo-German alliance of any sort post 1901 is fairly unlikely. The two countries are rivals in overseas markets. It would be easier and better for Britain to make its peace with the Franco-Russian Entente than align itself with Germany on the continent.
 
While a typically used POD there is nothing to support the idea that Frederick III would be liberal except wishful thinking of how things ended up under his son.

In general an Anglo-German alliance of any sort post 1901 is fairly unlikely. The two countries are rivals in overseas markets. It would be easier and better for Britain to make its peace with the Franco-Russian Entente than align itself with Germany on the continent.

David

Have to disagree here. San the German naval threat there was relatively little clashes territorially and some agreements, such as that over the possible division of Portuguese colonies if the country collapsed. Also there were close family connections. There were some trade rivalry but I don't know if it was worse than with other economic rivals.

In comparison as well as the traditional rivalry with France and Russia there were numerous territorial and political clashes. In Africa and the Pacific with France and with virtually the entire Russia border from Romania to Manchuria.

Steve
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
In general an Anglo-German alliance of any sort post 1901 is fairly unlikely. The two countries are rivals in overseas markets. It would be easier and better for Britain to make its peace with the Franco-Russian Entente than align itself with Germany on the continent.

The colonial interests of Britain were threatened to a much greater extent by France and Russia than they were by Germany.
 
Woodrow Wilson was floating this very idea to Germany and Britain just before the outbreak of the First World War if I recall correctly.
 
The colonial interests of Britain were threatened to a much greater extent by France and Russia than they were by Germany.
The scramble for Africa is over and France has no interest in british colony. However Germany never hidden it's colonial ambition.
 
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