Anglo-Dutch Empire

DAv · Apr 17, 2006

I've just read the time line and I'd like to say it's excellent!

Flocculencio · Apr 17, 2006

DAv said:
I've just read the time line and I'd like to say it's excellent!

Thanks. I started on a fiction piece set in this universe but it sort of lost steam

Fabilius · Apr 20, 2006

Flocculencio said:
Thanks. I started on a fiction piece set in this universe but it sort of lost steam

Wow, I just read the scenario. I´m impressed, it´s very fun. Is it going to get any bigger? Are you going to write further into the future?

Flocculencio · Apr 20, 2006

Fabilius said:
Wow, I just read the scenario. I´m impressed, it´s very fun. Is it going to get any bigger? Are you going to write further into the future?

I don't know- the trouble is that at this point the ADE are basically a more powerful superpower than any polity in OTL ever dreamed of being. If I take it further I've basically got three options

i) to plot out and describe the fall of the Empire. This would make me sad since I do really like these guys.

ii) to describe the development of the Empire into a One World Government. This wouldn't really make for that interesting a TL unless I can come up with some decent ideas.

iii) to take it into sci-fi with space travel and the like which, though interesting, wouldn't really be within the scope of this forum.

This is why I began the fiction piece set in the early 21st century, giving us a closer look at the world. I'm seriously thinking about continuing work on that one.

Fabilius · Apr 20, 2006

Flocculencio said:
I don't know- the trouble is that at this point the ADE are basically a more powerful superpower than any polity in OTL ever dreamed of being. If I take it further I've basically got three options

i) to plot out and describe the fall of the Empire. This would make me sad since I do really like these guys.

ii) to describe the development of the Empire into a One World Government. This wouldn't really make for that interesting a TL unless I can come up with some decent ideas.

iii) to take it into sci-fi with space travel and the like which, though interesting, wouldn't really be within the scope of this forum.

This is why I began the fiction piece set in the early 21st century, giving us a closer look at the world. I'm seriously thinking about continuing work on that one.

Yeah, I´d like to read more about the culture in that world, I liked the piece about the novels, and the movies.

And I wonder about the language. I mean over time wouldn´t it develope into a mix between English and Dutch. At least lot of influences on both languages.

It would be an even more English speaking world.

I pity the fate of my own language in that ATL.

Flocculencio · Apr 20, 2006

Fabilius said:
Yeah, I´d like to read more about the culture in that world, I liked the piece about the novels, and the movies.

And I wonder about the language. I mean over time wouldn´t it develope into a mix between English and Dutch. At least lot of influences on both languages.

It would be an even more English speaking world. I pity the fate of my own language in that ATL.

There are a few more details in this thread.

As for language, yep- English is dominant though it's slightly different from OTL's English with more Dutch loan-words especially in the Empire's North American territories. It's not really a mix between English and Dutch- as the dominant power in the United Kingdom, English maintained it's dominance. Dutch, however, is much more widely spoken in TTL than in OTL since it still exists as a seperate language and is spoken by many people throughout the
Empire, especially in the former domains of the VOC.

As for the cultural stuff like books and youth subcultures, Akiyama did indeed do a fantastic job, I must say.

Akiyama · Apr 21, 2006

If you have the time, I'd love to see more of "Like a Thief in the Night".

crnagora99 · May 4, 2006

Flocc,

Your TL is great, but could you do a map of of EUROPE today? I am sort of confused.

Flocculencio · May 4, 2006

crnagora99 said:
Flocc,

Your TL is great, but could you do a map of of EUROPE today? I am sort of confused.

No prob. Here you go

The countries with underlined names are part of the Anglo-Dutch Empire or members of the Anglo-Dutch Commonwealth.

Arachnid · May 4, 2006

Love the scenario and thanks for the map. In my World at War timeline I have taken a similar POD but made it a lot more dystopic.

crnagora99 · May 4, 2006

Wow, Flocc I love your originality.

-I love your Austrian Empire
-Italy is well divided, yeah... Venice is still there.
-rrr. Im Hungarian now

TheGreatCocanut · May 4, 2006

i don't think those blood thristy serbs would like being ruled by catholic magyars! (or anyone who isn't serbian for that matter

)

Flocculencio · May 4, 2006

TheGreatCocanut said:
i don't think those blood thristy serbs would like being ruled by catholic magyars! (or anyone who isn't serbian for that matter )

Well when it's a choice between the Magyars and TTLs Russians they might not protest too much

TheGreatCocanut · May 4, 2006

Flocculencio said:
Well when it's a choice between the Magyars and TTLs Russians they might not protest too much

i find that very hard to belive. what's to stop them from revolting from the magyars and starting their OWN state. that could be a point in the future. when you talk about the ADE's decline and fall (it's gonna happen, allway does)

Flocculencio · May 4, 2006

TheGreatCocanut said:
i find that very hard to belive. what's to stop them from revolting from the magyars and starting their OWN state. that could be a point in the future. when you talk about the ADE's decline and fall (it's gonna happen, allway does)

Sure- it's very possible. I've done hardly any work about fleshing out the balkans in TTL so it's probably very likely that the Hungarians are having recurrent problems with Slavic terrorist groups/freedom fighters trying to break away just as the Austro-Hungarian Empire did. The Russians might well have been funding them in the name of slavic unity or Orthodox solidarity or something of the sort. In fact Hungary might have been a flashpoint for the Great War- Russian troops crossing the border under the pretext of protecting their co-religionists or something of the sort.

Don't really see how that ties in to the ADE though since Hungary isn't a member state of the Commonwealth.

As for the decline and fall of the ADE...maybe, maybe not.

Fabilius · May 4, 2006

Flocculencio said:
As for the decline and fall of the ADE...maybe, maybe not.

Haven´t seen any signs of decline in the timeline though. It seems to be the perfect empire.

Magnificate · Jun 28, 2006

Cuple of questions:
-Flag of Viceroyalty of North America, has orange left-up and right-down cantons and blue left-down and right-up contons, which is different from all other flags. Why?
-Why is there sun and sword on Imperial and Commonwealth flag?
-Can we expect some more info about Vinland, especially it's society?
-Can we expect some more info about popular sports in TTL?
-Can we expect more information about warfare and military tactics of this TL?
-Do you consider building some sort of space elevator in Ang-Du Empire?
-How would a competent, well-educated airforce officer from Viceroyalty of North America reacted if ISOTed to some USA airforce base? (I need an independent opinion for my RPG scenario

)

Floid · Jun 28, 2006

Flocc... it's alive again.

Poor chap.

Flocculencio · Jun 28, 2006

Magnificate said:
Cuple of questions:
-Flag of Viceroyalty of North America, has orange left-up and right-down cantons and blue left-down and right-up contons, which is different from all other flags. Why?

Ah! Well done- I've been waiting for ages for someone to ask that

Real-world explanation...it's an earlier version of the Anglo-Dutch Flag which I neglected to fix.

-Why is there sun and sword on Imperial and Commonwealth flag?

I was looking for some sort of symbol to differentiate the flag of the Empire and Commonwealth from the Imperial flags since the members of the Commonwealth are affiliated with the Empire to varying degrees, some of them being de facto vassal states and some of them being almost totally independent.

I used to read the Battletech series and I always liked the Sword-and-Sun of House Davion. In terms of TTL, the sun symbolises that the sun never sets on the Empire and Commonwealth while the sword represents the fact that each member is committed to fight if necessary to preserve the Imperial Peace.

-Can we expect some more info about Vinland, especially it's society?

Possibly- I honestly hadn't fleshed out Sweden that much but I'll think about it.

-Can we expect some more info about popular sports in TTL?

Probably not- I'm not much of a sportsman myself. If you want to do a sports write-up for the TL, be my guest. Write it up and PM it to me so that I can edit it.

-Can we expect more information about warfare and military tactics of this TL?

It's actually much like our own with the exception that there's probably a lot more information on the use of tactical nuclear weapons what with the experiences of the Russian Civil War. Expect items like nuclear artillery to be an integral part of some nations arsenal.

Another notable difference is that, to a certain extent, Anglo-Dutch military commanders get to order orbital bombardments.

Of course this would depend on the manuvering ability of the Anglo-Dutch orbital cruisers which is something that might be interesting to work on- I'm not that familiar with the actual physics of how spaceships like that would work. From my perspective, it appears that while they wouldn't really have the capabilities to target enemy columns and so on, they would be useful for premptive strikes on known enemy bases and the like.

-Do you consider building some sort of space elevator in Ang-Du Empire?

I don't see why not- it'd need someone to come up with the idea first and then the development of materials that could stand the strain.

However, I can see one pro and one con to the idea- Anglo-Dutch popular culture is space-mad and as such the idea of a Space Elevator would probably we rather popular. The con, however, is that since the Empire has a large commercial and military presence in space and on the Moon you'd have a large number of corporate, military and financial interests arguing against it since it would make their investments in traditional rocketry meaningless.

-How would a competent, well-educated airforce officer from Viceroyalty of North America reacted if ISOTed to some USA airforce base? (I need an independent opinion for my RPG scenario )

Ooh, an interesting one. He'd probably be understandable although his vocabulary would be a lot more Dutch influenced than OTL's American English is.

He'd be a bit perplexed at the sheer chaos of OTL- remember these guys have been brought up in a culture which idealises the idea of the Imperial Peace.

He'd also have a weird mix of cultural attitudes- he'd be confused about OTL's prudery towards sex and such matters but also about what he would consider our technophobia.

To someone from OTL's US he'd probably come across as irritatingly condescending. Again, this is a product of Imperial culture, the idea that if you are not an Imperial Citizen you are to be pitied and helped along.

Flocculencio · Jun 28, 2006

An Announcement

If anyone has any ideas about various aspects of the Anglo-Dutch World that you'd like to see fleshed out, please feel free to do a write-up. PM it to me for editing and I'll look over it and post it, citing your name, if I feel it fits in with what has already been written.

Just one restriction- please don't write up anything taking place at a later date than the end of the TL (i.e. 2005)

Cultural aspects e.g. sports and the like are fine. I look forward to seeing submissions if any