Anglo-Chinese War in early 1800's?

Hey Guys,

This is more of a thought exercise, but what if Britain and China went to war in the early 1800's? Say Britain isn't at war with anyone else, so there's no distraction.

How would Britain fare? Has Britain passed China in the area of technology by this point so as to allow a victory? What of naval forces? etc.
 
Just to clarify: Do you mean something like the First Opium War (1839-42)?

Googling when did China fall behind Europe lead to a non-alternative history forum that suggested that China had started falling behind technologically sometime around the 16th century or so.

As I recall early 19th century China didn't have much of a navy, while
there had by that point been a song about what Britannia does to
the waves for some sixty years or so.
 

scholar

Banned
The earlier the English go to war with China, the better off China will ultimately be. The early 1800s, or even at 1800, would have better results for China than the first Opium War and may even result in a more limited trade of the product to Chinese markets.

However... its probably too late for significant changes to the Chinese military and economic network without a dynasty change as it is far too soon for a western political construct to gain traction there.
 
Just to clarify: Do you mean something like the First Opium War (1839-42)?

Googling when did China fall behind Europe lead to a non-alternative history forum that suggested that China had started falling behind technologically sometime around the 16th century or so.

As I recall early 19th century China didn't have much of a navy, while
there had by that point been a song about what Britannia does to
the waves for some sixty years or so.
Kind of, it's for a TL I'm doing, but the general idea is that it's like the Opium Wars - it'll lead to small territorial gains, but mainly is to open trade up with China, if that's what you meant?

As early as that? Wow, fair enough.

So The Royal Navy hasn't got anything to worry about then, really? Cheers.
 
Just to clarify: Do you mean something like the First Opium War (1839-42)?

Googling when did China fall behind Europe lead to a non-alternative history forum that suggested that China had started falling behind technologically sometime around the 16th century or so.

As I recall early 19th century China didn't have much of a navy, while
there had by that point been a song about what Britannia does to
the waves for some sixty years or so.

If you're talking about an early 19th century British expedition to China, this is not going to happen so long as a certain Corsican Emperor is trying to take over all of Europe.

The 18th century is very iffy though, as the technological difference isn't that great, and this was when the Qing under Qianlong (not the old, complacent, semi-senile man that Lord McCartney encountered in 1793) were at its peak, having doubled the size of its territory, including defeating the Russians numerous times. This was also before the numerous corruption scandals drained the Qing Treasury, such as the eunuch Heshen who had been made finance minister but ended up bankrupting the Qing near the end of Qianlong's reign. Plus, even getting a sizable British force to China safely would have been a challenge in and of itself.

The British in 1839 caught the Qing at precisely the worst possible moment. The Chinese had suffered numerous internal disasters and crises even before the British had shown up. The Grand Canal had just gone bust, taking a third of the Chinese economy with it. They'd just suffered the White Lotus Rebellion. The Daoguang Emperor was also an incompetent who surrounded himself with the most traditionalist purists who told the Emperor what he wanted to hear. The British just exposed these in the worst possible way...

Ruled by a more competent administration, it probably still would have been a loss in that particular conflict, but not the continuous cycle of futility that plagued China for the rest of the 19th century.
 
Kind of, it's for a TL I'm doing, but the general idea is that it's like the Opium Wars - it'll lead to small territorial gains, but mainly is to open trade up with China, if that's what you meant?
I meant "Do you mean like the one they had a bit too late to count as the
early 1800s or something different?"

If you're talking about an early 19th century British expedition to China, this is not going to happen so long as a certain Corsican Emperor is trying to take over all of Europe.
He did say that the assumption is that Britain is otherwise undistracted
and not at war, so presumably Napoleon is no concern.
 
If you're talking about an early 19th century British expedition to China, this is not going to happen so long as a certain Corsican Emperor is trying to take over all of Europe.
As I said in the beginning, as this is a thought exercise, I'm assuming there's no distractions for Britain.
The 18th century is very iffy though, as the technological difference isn't that great, and this was when the Qing under Qianlong (not the old, complacent, semi-senile man that Lord McCartney encountered in 1793) were at its peak, having doubled the size of its territory, including defeating the Russians numerous times. This was also before the numerous corruption scandals drained the Qing Treasury, such as the eunuch Heshen who had been made finance minister but ended up bankrupting the Qing near the end of Qianlong's reign.
Say the war began sometime between 1802-1810, I assume that the White Lotus Rebellion would still be a fairly big issue for the Qing back then?
Plus, even getting a sizable British force to China safely would have been a challenge in and of itself.
As this is for a TL I'm doing, let's say the British hold the Philippines, thus giving them a good base to attack from.
Ruled by a more competent administration, it probably still would have been a loss in that particular conflict, but not the continuous cycle of futility that plagued China for the rest of the 19th century.
So overall a British victory, but not a great one, and certainly one that wouldn't have led to the extreme degradation we saw happen IOTL?
 
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