Anglo-American War

I was just reading up on War Plan Red, a US plan to invade Canada to thwart British trade hegemony and Defence Scheme No. 1, a Canadian plan to pre-emptivly invade the US and await British aid in a time of inevitable war. I was just wondering, was their any way any of these plans could have gone into effect? At some points, tenisons were high between the US and the Brit Empire over tariffs, and I wonder if these could have come to open war in the 20's or 30's, due to some POD making a worse depression or Anlgo-American relationship. How would this war go? Would the Japanese become involved, as they had an alliance w/ the British until some time in the 20's, I believe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Schme_No._1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

And wouldn't it be a silly little war if Canada accidentaly invaded the US thinking the US would invade them later? That would be a funny TL.:)
 
Manpower and industrial wise the US could crush Canada before help from Britan could arrive. It is doubtful that Great Britain would want to start such a war as it could very well lead to a total mess of the world.
 
I think even with British help, America would still crush the Canadian Armed Forces and quickly occupy it. By the time British forces would arrive to help in the defense of Canada, all of the major cities and vital supply lines would be taken. The best the Brits could do is to hold out in Northern Canada until 1)They freeze to death and morale is dismal until British troops revolt or 2) The US cuts off their supply lines by the sea.
 

Xen

Banned
This would probably have to happen if there is no Washington Treaty, the war would not be an easy one for either side. First off the United States has a tiny between war Army that is doubtful would crush anybody, it would take several months to recruit, train and equip an army of the magnitude needed for such an operation. By the time the US was able to field such an army, the British would be in Canada.

For the British Empire it is a logistical nightmare, they are likely to go for a deeper preemptive invasion of the United States, perhaps a Normandy-style landing outside of Chicago, and bombing Detroit, America's industrial heart to the stoneage. The best hope for winning the war is to make the American population weary of war. However if they are unable to do that with in 6 months, the United States is very likely to drive the British out of any continental American territory they hold with in another 6 months, just by the sheer size of its forces. The United States would likely win the war in the long term, but at what cost? To put it mildly its a war that nobody would want
 
You'd need an earlier POD, I think, to avoid those long years of positive UK-US relations. I know that there was some disagreement over the Alaskan-British Columbian border during the (Teddy) Rossevelt years, and 50 years before that some misplaced fears that the UK would recognize the Confederacy during the War Twixt the States... and 20 years before that, some nationalistic bluster about going to war to bring British Columbia into the USA... and some kind of war, 30 years before that. That's 90 years with only a couple of minor disagreements between two powerful nations that share a very, very long border - a border, by the way, that has been demilitarized since 1818. So a series of events would have to occur over a long period to get two such chummy nations to get into such an ill-advised war.
 

MrP

Banned
There's a huge stockpile of armaments left over from the Great War in Canada which might delay matters. The question is whether America's relatively small first strike forces can push through the Canadians' impromptu defences before diplomacy sorts the whole affair out, I would think.
 
Jeez, has no one here actually read Defense Scheme Number One? the whole point of it was to run hell for leather into the States on day one while the military forces are still reasonably near parity. And, of course, there's always the fact that before any conflict, there'll be a long period of deteriorating relations in which the Brits will no doubt be packing Canada full of soldiers. The war would no doubt be hard-fought and in the balance, but taking over Canada wouldn't be a mere matter of marching any more than Round I was.
 

Deleted member 1487

If there was a packing of forces into Canada, the US would be mobilizing its armies, which kind of makes the preemptive strike moot, as the US will be on its territory with a full army ready and waiting to murder the foreign invaders. Also mix in the history of invasions from Canada by the Brits of America, and you are going to get a nasty partisan effort in the the Commonwealth rear. Remember, Americans own a lot of guns and like to go hunting. Invading the US, especially after a war in which millions of men were given military training is not something Britain, who I might add has just had nearly 1 million young men die, is going to want to do. Also the US has a much larger industrial base than the Commonwealth that does not need foreign imports to function, like Germany.
The USA would win and it would be ugly. But as stated above, no one wants this kind of war, as it would cost too many lives on all sides and disrupt trade, and if there is one thing both the US and Britain don't like losing, its money.
 
I was just reading up on War Plan Red, a US plan to invade Canada to thwart British trade hegemony and Defence Scheme No. 1, a Canadian plan to pre-emptivly invade the US and await British aid in a time of inevitable war. I was just wondering, was their any way any of these plans could have gone into effect? At some points, tenisons were high between the US and the Brit Empire over tariffs, and I wonder if these could have come to open war in the 20's or 30's, due to some POD making a worse depression or Anlgo-American relationship. How would this war go? Would the Japanese become involved, as they had an alliance w/ the British until some time in the 20's, I believe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Schme_No._1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

And wouldn't it be a silly little war if Canada accidentaly invaded the US thinking the US would invade them later? That would be a funny TL.:)

Both sides have lots to lose and very little to gain, even with problems about tariffs or a worsened depression or whatever. Both plans are just contingency plans the kind of things the staffs like to have in a lower drawer just in the very unlikely case.

Note that no war starts out of the blue, with no warning signs. The inter-war US Army was tiny - because there was no land threat. Long-lasting bad relations with Canada, plus a strengthening of the British forces in Canada = larger US Army.

An "accident" might always take place, however, soon to be redressed by diplomacy. It would have little direct effects but might make long-lasting ripples in the relationship.
 
The full effects would be highly dependent on WHEN the war begins. If it begins after Hitler takes power, Europe Effectively would either be Red or Nazi by 1950. There is NO way that the USA would lift a finger to help Great Britan after such a devastating war. Secondly , even if the US is unable to annex Canada, when a WWII analouge inevitably hits, Canada would fall, no Ifs or buts. It's likely that every possesion of Britan and even the Allies in America would be occupied, while the Japanese (let's assume that Japan also attacks USA in this TL ) faces the full warth of America.

The butterflies might be enormous as a result. This could end in a Chinese Siberia, an Indian Iran and Somalia etc....
 
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