Anglo-American war with British defeat.

What would be necessary for the USA to defeat the British in a war post ARW but before 1900?

Obviously they would need allies and a larger navy/army than OTL so a less anti military federal goverment and less reliance on militia is vital.

Depends on how we define defeat. If defeat means British get frustrated and go home ala the US experience in Vietnam, then the USA being able to outlast the UK is a victory. If victory means a US triumphal parade in front of Buckingham Palace a sufficiently powerful and selective meteor shower.
 
Depends on how we define defeat. If defeat means British get frustrated and go home ala the US experience in Vietnam, then the USA being able to outlast the UK is a victory. If victory means a US triumphal parade in front of Buckingham Palace a sufficiently powerful and selective meteor shower.

A victory in which the USA of the 19th century gets all of North America is definitely doable. The USA of the 19th century would not be taking over the UK nor would the UK be able to take over the USA.
 
A victory in which the USA of the 19th century gets all of North America is definitely doable. The USA of the 19th century would not be taking over the UK nor would the UK be able to take over the USA.

How is the US of the late 19th century taking over all of North America, again?

Britain just going to say "You know, we've always wanted to cede Canada."?
 
A victory in which the USA of the 19th century gets all of North America is definitely doable. The USA of the 19th century would not be taking over the UK nor would the UK be able to take over the USA.

Including Mexico and Central America? Yeah, there's a phrase for this: Crack!TL.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Name one territorial dispute between Britain and the USA that was decided in favour of Britain. Everthing that the USA demanded of Britain, such as territory to fishing rights, they got it.

Balls. Every one was settled by negotiation. That's what civilised countries do. I only have to look at the Oregon claims to see a compromise:

588px-Oregoncountry.png



Furthermore, didn't we already have this discussion about the reliablilty of Andrew Lambert?

Yes, and you lost.
 
What are you saying? It is so easy to put in links like that. Do you expect me to read all these pages? Argue on your own. To humour you, I did decide to read the first two pages that pop up on your link. Guess what? On page 166, it actually states that Brtain lacks the military means to overthrow a second-rank nation.

Name one territorial dispute between Britain and the USA that was decided in favour of Britain. Everthing that the USA demanded of Britain, such as territory to fishing rights, they got it.

Furthermore, didn't we already have this discussion about the reliablilty of Andrew Lambert?

Well, there's the ones starting with the British maintaining forts and allies with Indian Tribes on US territory that resolved in their favor with Jay's Treaty. The Alabama claims were resolved by arbitration under the Grant Administration, and neither side really got what they wanted.
 
Balls. Every one was settled by negotiation.

Yes. Negotiations settled in favour of the USA. Go look up the Alaskan border dispute. It was supposed to be settled by arbitration. But the USA then decided that arbitration or not, they would go to war to assert their claims if necessary and they meant it. What did Britain do? They told the arbitrator to settle in favour of the USA.

That's what civilised countries do.

Please. Britain and the USA were not civilized. They are only civilized if they can get what they want without having to use force. Ask the Asian and African peoples if 19th century Britain was civilized in looking for compromises.

I only have to look at the Oregon claims to see a compromise:

Some compromise. The USA basically got what they wanted. The 54th parrellel was not important to the USA; it would have been just icing on the cake. They principally wanted access to the Pacific and got it by getting California and Oregon.

Britain got nothing out of this "compromise". They couldn't even insist on keeping the Columbia river within British territory. The Columbia River goes north well deep into British territory. It is like the St. Lawrence river but in the west and going north. The USA didn't need it and could easily have given this territory to Britain while still having access to the Pacific. But Britain could't even insist on that. The mouth and part of the Columbia river was given to the USA.

The USA got, by far, the better deal out of this "compromise".

Yes, and you lost.

Sure. I remember differently.
 
Well, there's the ones starting with the British maintaining forts and allies with Indian Tribes on US territory that resolved in their favor with Jay's Treaty. The Alabama claims were resolved by arbitration under the Grant Administration, and neither side really got what they wanted.

Jay's Treaty was early and during a time when the USA was weak. I have said that AFTER the War of 1812, every dispute between Britain and USA was settled in favour of the USA.

The Alabama claims was settled in favour of the USA. What didn't they get?
 
So when the US says "54-40 or fight", what they really mean is "we just want access to the Pacific".

Even allowing for 54-40 being deliberately exaggerated . . .

I think this is treating "Britain regarded fighting the US as not worth it" as the same as "Britain regarded fighting the US as a good way to get its ass kicked".

Britain doesn't have anything at stake justifying spilling lots of blood and treasure over, so if the US is looking like it wants to make such a conflict, compromise is better than fighting.

Speaking based on my knowledge of British policy, not as an Anglophile.
 
Jay's Treaty was early and during a time when the USA was weak. I have said that AFTER the War of 1812, every dispute between Britain and USA was settled in favour of the USA.

The Alabama claims was settled in favour of the USA. What didn't they get?

What they originally wanted which was a very much larger financial claim than was actually paid.
 
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