Anglo-American Rivalry: WW1: Allies vs. CP vs. Britain?

[oshron]

hey, all. an idea just occurred to me concerning my more serious and realistic TL, Anglo-American Rivalry. for those who don't know/don't remember, Anglo-American Rivalry is a little project of mine exploring what the world could be like if the US and UK never got on good terms with one another following the Revolutionary Wars.

anyway, one thing i had originally planned on building up to was that TTL's WW1 rolls around with the US on the side of the allies along with France, Russia, and others while Britain somewhat reluctantly joins the Central Powers, butterflying in a few other Central Powers states by proxy, like Portugal. [/spoiler]

however, a different idea just occurred to me. what if, instead of Britain and its closer allies becoming part of the Central Powers, it forms a third major side in the war, so the broad participants of *WW1 are the Allies, the Central Powers, and the British Sphere. though the British Sphere isn't directly allied to teh CPs (at least at first) it is something of a co-belligerent but also has interests against the CPs. obviously, the Royal Navy would be a huge factor in this, perhaps preventing the navies of either of the other sides from getting to where they need to be unless it would serve their interests as well (for example, a German invasion of the US would definitely help the British ITTL)

mainly, what i'm really asking is what everyone thinks would be the ultimate end of WW1 ITTL, and how it could potentially affect the world afterward and on to a potential WW2 (i know its a cliche that WW1 and WW2 always occur, but its something that i want to explore for TTL)

thoughts? suggestions? constructive criticism?

 

[stevep]

hey, all. an idea just occurred to me concerning my more serious and realistic TL, Anglo-American Rivalry. for those who don't know/don't remember, Anglo-American Rivalry is a little project of mine exploring what the world could be like if the US and UK never got on good terms with one another following the Revolutionary Wars.

anyway, one thing i had originally planned on building up to was that TTL's WW1 rolls around with the US on the side of the allies along with France, Russia, and others while Britain somewhat reluctantly joins the Central Powers, butterflying in a few other Central Powers states by proxy, like Portugal. [/spoiler]

however, a different idea just occurred to me. what if, instead of Britain and its closer allies becoming part of the Central Powers, it forms a third major side in the war, so the broad participants of *WW1 are the Allies, the Central Powers, and the British Sphere. though the British Sphere isn't directly allied to teh CPs (at least at first) it is something of a co-belligerent but also has interests against the CPs. obviously, the Royal Navy would be a huge factor in this, perhaps preventing the navies of either of the other sides from getting to where they need to be unless it would serve their interests as well (for example, a German invasion of the US would definitely help the British ITTL)

mainly, what i'm really asking is what everyone thinks would be the ultimate end of WW1 ITTL, and how it could potentially affect the world afterward and on to a potential WW2 (i know its a cliche that WW1 and WW2 always occur, but its something that i want to explore for TTL)

thoughts? suggestions? constructive criticism?

oshron

If you mean literally US/UK tension from the revolutionary war then it depends on how many butterflies there are. Even if there are no wars after 1812 a degree of additional tension is likely to have effects demographically, economically and diplomatically. For instance:
a) Canada won't bled settlers to the US so it will be significantly more developed.
b) Greater tension is likely to mean the US has less [or more expensive] access to UK finance, which would delay somewhat the development of the US and presumably mean somewhere else gets more development.
c) Changes of tension, say over the Confederacy, US attempts to break away Panama or say the coup in Hawaii by the US planters.

This excludes the simple possibility that there is a big clash somewhere in the 1800's and the US gets seriously curtailed.

I think you would be better having the trigger for tension coming later, say the dispute over Venezuelan debt, which came up a couple of times in the 1890s and early 1900s. This avoids having to consider a lot of potential butterflies.

If Britain was allied with the central powers, either formally or informally the big neutral that would be changed would probably be Japan. It has tensions with Russia and also the US and an alliance with Britain. Also, given extensive British economic and financial contacts in Latin America you would probably see a proxy war there, at least for influx and to maintain. Also if Britain is associated with the central powers I doubt the Italians are going to attack Austria. They might want to but their too vulnerable to naval power, which Britain will have in spades. Could either stay neutral or possibly even join the central powers as some French lands they can gain.

How have you got around America's long standing opposition to any alliances? Raising tension with Britain is unlikely to greatly affect that. Its more likely to be the US having an associated relationship with the allies, as in OTL WWI, and Britain being a full member of the Central Power alliance. Unless you have something like no formal alliance before the war starts and the Germans still invade Belgium, which might give a reason for Britain to keep its distance from the central powers. Think you would still have the US only loosely linked to the Franco-Russian bloc.

How long and how greatly has tension been raised? That would affect how militarised or not Canada and the US are when it starts and also the degree of militarisation of Britain. Similarly, has it included a UK-US element to the OTL pre-war naval race?

Can't remember seeing the TL. [Although don't spend as much time on the site as I used to]. If there are not too many butterflies then the two questions are how long Canada can hold out with British reinforcements and similarly how long France can hold. Presuming OTL basic positions, although this is unlikely, then France will probably be forced to concede before Canada is overwhelmed. At which point it would depend on whether nations decide to fight on or come to terms. If they do then how much would Germany be willing to help Britain defend Canada? Which is a reason why the status of the British relationship with the central powers is so important.

Steve

 

[oshron]

[snip]

believe me, i plan to thoroughly examine what else could happen alternatively to what happened OTL. for this thread, though, i just want to explore what it could potentially look like with three main sides in TTL's WW1 on the assumption that such an event occurs as opposed to what i'll end up REALLY writing for it. its important to remember that Anglo-American Rivalry is a WIP