Angevin Loss Should the Plantagenets inherit Flanders and Latin Empire

Angevin Loss Should the Plantagenets inherit Flanders and Latin Empire

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
Angevin Loss Should the Plantagenets inherit Flanders and Latin Empire via Margaret of Flanders, since Joanna of Flanders gets captured as OTL in that timeline.
 
When and how would they inherit Flanders? When Baldwin died, his daughters, Joan and Margaret, were both placed into the custody of king Philip Augustus, with a compromise between the king and their uncle, Marquis Philip of Namur.
From Wikipedia, but the book 'Medieval Flanders', by David Nicholas, p 151- 152 basically says the same thing:
"the French king demanded assurances from Philip I of Namur that he would not marry off his nieces without the former's consent. In 1208, they reached an agreement: Joan and Margaret were forbidden to marry before their legal majority without the consent of the Marquis of Namur. However, the Marquis would not oppose the royal choice of husbands. If either refused the candidate chosen by King Philip II, the agreement required the Marquis to find a husband—after compensation was made to the French king."
So I don't see Philip Augustus marrying the countess of Flanders to an English Prince, since the French king had already taken Anjou, Maine and Touraine from the English. He wouldn't be so stupid to basically give the powerful and wealthy region of Flanders to the English.

The only way I can see the English gaining control of the County of Flanders would be that king John's son, Henry, is born several years earlier and Henry and Joan are betrothed. And that Joan is raised at the English court together with Henry instead of in France.

Concerning the Latin Empire; with the death of Baldwin, his brother Henry succeeded him and after Henry it was Peter of Courtenay, who was a cousin to Philip Augustus. So I don't see any way that the Plantagenets gain control of the Latin Empire
 
When and how would they inherit Flanders? When Baldwin died, his daughters, Joan and Margaret, were both placed into the custody of king Philip Augustus, with a compromise between the king and their uncle, Marquis Philip of Namur.
From Wikipedia, but the book 'Medieval Flanders', by David Nicholas, p 151- 152 basically says the same thing:
"the French king demanded assurances from Philip I of Namur that he would not marry off his nieces without the former's consent. In 1208, they reached an agreement: Joan and Margaret were forbidden to marry before their legal majority without the consent of the Marquis of Namur. However, the Marquis would not oppose the royal choice of husbands. If either refused the candidate chosen by King Philip II, the agreement required the Marquis to find a husband—after compensation was made to the French king."
So I don't see Philip Augustus marrying the countess of Flanders to an English Prince, since the French king had already taken Anjou, Maine and Touraine from the English. He wouldn't be so stupid to basically give the powerful and wealthy region of Flanders to the English.

The only way I can see the English gaining control of the County of Flanders would be that king John's son, Henry, is born several years earlier and Henry and Joan are betrothed. And that Joan is raised at the English court together with Henry instead of in France.

Concerning the Latin Empire; with the death of Baldwin, his brother Henry succeeded him and after Henry it was Peter of Courtenay, who was a cousin to Philip Augustus. So I don't see any way that the Plantagenets gain control of the Latin Empire
IOTL Joanna wanted for her sister Margaret to marry someone from an illegitimate line of the Plantagenets so I think it is plausible.
 
IOTL Joanna wanted for her sister Margaret to marry someone from an illegitimate line of the Plantagenets so I think it is plausible.
Philip Augustus had Margaret married to Burchard of Avesnes, a lord of Hainaut and supporter of him. After Burchard demanded part of the inheritance, Countess Joan requested that Pope Innocent III had the marriage declared illegal because Burchard had taken his vows in his youth. The Fourth Lateran Council declared the marriage invalid. They fled and had 2 sons. Burchard was captured and held for 2 years, he was released only after they separated. By then Margaret had married William of Dampierre and they would have children as well.
I don't see an earlier marriage happening since Margaret was at the French court. And with Ferrand captive in Paris as well from 1214 to 1227, I don't see Joan risking her husband who she truly loved to marry her sister to even an illegitimate Plantagenet
 
Philip Augustus had Margaret married to Burchard of Avesnes, a lord of Hainaut and supporter of him. After Burchard demanded part of the inheritance, Countess Joan requested that Pope Innocent III had the marriage declared illegal because Burchard had taken his vows in his youth. The Fourth Lateran Council declared the marriage invalid. They fled and had 2 sons. Burchard was captured and held for 2 years, he was released only after they separated. By then Margaret had married William of Dampierre and they would have children as well.
I don't see an earlier marriage happening since Margaret was at the French court. And with Ferrand captive in Paris as well from 1214 to 1227, I don't see Joan risking her husband who she truly loved to marry her sister to even an illegitimate Plantagenet
This TL has Louis VIII married to Eleanor of Brittany so the French would have wiped out the continental possessions of the Plantagenet.
 
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