Andrew Jackson killed at New Orleans
- Thread starter marl_d
- Start date
why would there have been more problems with Indians? (other than the Seminoles) Most of the Indian's that he forced out of Georgia/Mississippi were of the "Civilized" tribes, many were slave holders and had large plantations and were quite wealthy.
The Third Bank makes sense, unless whoever becomes President instead pushes to get rid of it.
um...Crockett Presidency...interesting
The Third Bank makes sense, unless whoever becomes President instead pushes to get rid of it.
um...Crockett Presidency...interesting
Jackson didn't start the Indian clearance, He just refused to accept the Supremes saying the Clearance was illegal.
The Whole Trail of tears started over Whites attempts to take Indian lands in Georgia & the Carolinas.
These attempts are not going to stop, just because of some - Seven?? Men in Robes - in far off Washington DC.
um...i suppose...but without Jackson there to push it, the removal probably wouldn't be as "successful" as it was OTL. same with clearing out Florida.
also, what would the consequence of having the 3rd Bank rechartered?
I could see Adams having a better Presidency serving 2 terms as Jackson isn't there to get pissy when Clay threw the election to Adams
Non-Controversial Election of 1824 and the Lack of a Viable Opposition
If Jackson were to die anytime between 1815 and 1824, the Election of 1824 would likely not have any Controversy, I think.
I'm not sure, but it seems to me after reviewing the state-by-state popular vote of the election, that John Quincy Adams might be able to pass the 131 Electoral Vote threshold to be elected straight away.
So... without a "corrupt bargain" and Jackson to rally the states-rights Jeffersonian tradition, when would a viable second political party emerge and what would it be like? Henry Clay's American System might really take hold simply because nobody else had an organized alternative.
I don't think John Calhoun would be able to rally the Northern anti-Clay forces very well...
If Jackson were to die anytime between 1815 and 1824, the Election of 1824 would likely not have any Controversy, I think.
I'm not sure, but it seems to me after reviewing the state-by-state popular vote of the election, that John Quincy Adams might be able to pass the 131 Electoral Vote threshold to be elected straight away.
So... without a "corrupt bargain" and Jackson to rally the states-rights Jeffersonian tradition, when would a viable second political party emerge and what would it be like? Henry Clay's American System might really take hold simply because nobody else had an organized alternative.
I don't think John Calhoun would be able to rally the Northern anti-Clay forces very well...
Wasn't Jackson the first 'President of the People'? The first President to ris from humble origins to achive greatness?He's not really a 'high-class' President...
yeah, he was also the first "western" President too. um...have to look into Calhoun and Clay's ideas and see where they could take us...Maybe Houston and Crockett too. without Jackson to push them they'd stay in Tennessee and have more influential careers
The second party system would most likely be after the John Quincy Adams presidency.
The Democratic-Republicans of Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe would be split. Clay would lead what would be called the National Republicans. Clay would serve two terms and then nominate a succcessor much like Jackson. Opposition would be organised into a looser second party that would be against Clay, just like IOTL the Whigs were formed to oppose Jacksonian policies.
The future of manifest destiny could be up in the air as Clay did not support annexation of Texas.
The opposition party would be all for expansion. Who would be its leader though? Tyler,Polk, Harrison? Who was the strongest voice in Congress for the expansion of the United States into Texas, New Mexico, and California, or was it more of a unified front, meaning multiple interests united for manifest destiny?
Didn't Calhoun consider running in 1824, though settled for the Vice Presidency when he realized he wouldn't even be able to carry the South because of Jackson and Crawford.
Remove Jackson from the equation, and Calhoun may well run. Clay would do well in the West, Calhoun in the South, Q.A. in New England, and Crawford probably would fare as poorly as he did OTL.
So you could end up with a "corrupt bargain" between Clay and Calhoun. His support in exchange for say... Secretary of State, which was basiclly the position of heir to the presidency.
Remove Jackson from the equation, and Calhoun may well run. Clay would do well in the West, Calhoun in the South, Q.A. in New England, and Crawford probably would fare as poorly as he did OTL.
So you could end up with a "corrupt bargain" between Clay and Calhoun. His support in exchange for say... Secretary of State, which was basiclly the position of heir to the presidency.
What about Daniel Webster? He would probably come into play later, but would Clay having more of an influence earlier mean that Webster could become Clay's successor?
Yes, Webster would most likely be Clay's Secretary of State. He was the most influential Whig along with Clay. IMO, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, James G. Blaine and Al Gore are some of the people who came closest to the presidency IOTL but didn't get it. Webster was offered the Vice-Presidency of Harrison and Taylor, but declined both
So the presidents would probably be:
6. John Quincy Adams (1825-1833)
7. Henry Clay (1833-1841)
8. Daniel Webster (1841-1845 or 1849)
9. maybe James K. Polk (1845-1849)
Since Webster would be an incumbent in 1844 there's a greater chance he'll win. This would probably butterfly away the Mexican-American War, which would butterfly away the Civil War or at least delay it.
um...lets say that the 1824 election goes to JQA with Calhoun as VP.
then Calhoun runs in 1828 Against JQA due to their disagreement over the Tariffs. Due to overwhelming support from the South and West, Calhoun is able to wins. Would Clay have run for VP or be named Sec of State? with possibility of Webster in the roll that Clay doesn't get. this might cause some problems later on as something like tariffs or slavery as Webster didn't support it.
could go:
1825-1829: John Quincy-Adams
1829-1837: John C. Calhoun
1837-1841: Henry Clay/Daniel Webster
1841-1849: Webster/Clay
1837-1849: this would depended on who would be Calhouns VP and Sec of State. Whoever was VP get the 37-41 Presidency and due to disagreements over slavery or tariffs or something else Webster and Clay would go at each other in the 1840 election. course this could throw the election to someone else entirely like Van Buren
then Calhoun runs in 1828 Against JQA due to their disagreement over the Tariffs. Due to overwhelming support from the South and West, Calhoun is able to wins. Would Clay have run for VP or be named Sec of State? with possibility of Webster in the roll that Clay doesn't get. this might cause some problems later on as something like tariffs or slavery as Webster didn't support it.
could go:
1825-1829: John Quincy-Adams
1829-1837: John C. Calhoun
1837-1841: Henry Clay/Daniel Webster
1841-1849: Webster/Clay
1837-1849: this would depended on who would be Calhouns VP and Sec of State. Whoever was VP get the 37-41 Presidency and due to disagreements over slavery or tariffs or something else Webster and Clay would go at each other in the 1840 election. course this could throw the election to someone else entirely like Van Buren