Andean South Pacific

What if a northern Andean civilization, probably post-Chavin, had developed a more advanced naval package and preempted the colonisation of the south Pacific from the Polynesians? The Polynesian colonisation of Easter Island and the sailing of the Kontiki prove it to be possible, though the vast distances and few islands in the south-eastern Pacific would make it difficult, but I don't think impossible.

So, perhaps a wave of Andean navigators expanding westward would collide with the Polynesians expanding to the east. I'd like the Andeans to at least get Hawaii before the Polynesians do.

This then raises the question of what manner of trade items and diseases would be exchanged in the process. This would mean likely a very long and distant Columbian exchange from a relatively early point in history (assuming the Sea-Chavin and the Polynesians make contact around after 200AD, somewhere in central Polynesia). The trade and interaction would be slight, but possibly maintained over a long period of time. This could see potatos and other Andean crops making their way across the Pacific, and maybe pigs making their way to the New World.

A bonus effect could be the Sea-Chavin exploring up the coast to California and planting agriculture there, but that may be less likely.
 
I've thought a lot about this before, and I actually have a page about the mini-Columbian Exchange at the site for my alternate Easter Island. The page is "How the Henua Saved Civilization".

In fact there really was a very small ecological exchange between Polynesia and South America. At minimum, the Polynesians got the sweet potato; and the word kumara, "sweet potato" in various Polynesian languages, is an Andean loan. And if I remember correctly, the spread of the kumara in Oceania is still ongoing, with some Papuan groups just starting to acquire it after its long journey west from Easter Island. Note that in OTL that didn't result in any medieval outbreaks of smallpox or the bubonic plague in the Americas, and the whole suite of South American crops was not brought into the Pacific. So this TL would need prolonged and large-scale contact between Andeans and Polynesians. Large numbers of South Americans heading out to the islands, and I would think they'd need to remain in contact with the mainland to really guarantee the change you're looking for.

I'm not sure what the POD here would be that would require the post-Chavins to become a bold and hardy seafaring people. But it would be interesting.
 
I think one would have to examine the direction of currents from South American towards the islands of the South Pacific. I see it rather more reasonable that any Andean civilization would move both up and down the coast, probably making it to Panama and, with more luck, rounding the Cape into the Atlantic.

Jumping off into the Pacific is going to take a lot more reason and determination. It will also depend upon finding islands that will allow them to link with those of Polynesia. I think eastward exploration from South America is going to be far harder than any thing the Polynesians encountered - and we are only aware of those fleets that made it.

Now, technically, it is speculated that there was pre-polynesian race of humans that did originally inhabit Hawaii. While they were eventually wiped out by the waves of Polynesian settlements it is from they that they myths of the Menehune come from.
 
You didn't mention Thor Heyerdahl! :confused::D

He did extensive writing on the subject and there is a number of websites dedicated to it. Though the professional historians, anthropologists ect. disagree wildly! :D

He claims to have done a scholarly work in his field botany on the spread of South American agricultural products into the South Pacific - haven't read it though.
 
Heyderdahl's mostly been discredited; according to one scientist (I'm paraphrasing), the only thing he proved was that a crew of Scandinavians can crash a wooden boat into an island starting from 2,000 miles away. His theories about South Americans colonizing the Pacific were mostly contradicted by later research. However, it remains probable that Polynesians reached South America. (Otherwise, where did they get those sweet potatoes?)
 
Heyderdahl's mostly been discredited; according to one scientist (I'm paraphrasing), the only thing he proved was that a crew of Scandinavians can crash a wooden boat into an island starting from 2,000 miles away. His theories about South Americans colonizing the Pacific were mostly contradicted by later research. However, it remains probable that Polynesians reached South America. (Otherwise, where did they get those sweet potatoes?)

Actually he ought to have been a member of an AH society! :D
 
Here a map of the Eastern South Pacific currents:

82_562_pacific_ocean.jpg


Seems to get to Hawaii they would need to start off the Coast of Central America and take the current to Hawaii.
 
Here a map of the Eastern South Pacific currents:

82_562_pacific_ocean.jpg


Seems to get to Hawaii they would need to start off the Coast of Central America and take the current to Hawaii.

Thats very informative, thanks. It also reinforces my belief that it would be much harder sailing westward at least in the terms of hitting an island.
 
I'd really doubt the Andeans would go out on the high seas of their own accord - there are just too high barriers to entry. All other sea faring cultures can start of going to smaller islands and gradually move further out as technology improves, all I can sea the Andeans doing is galleys up and down the coast maybe catching some northerly winds.

However if someone else finds a seafaring Andean culture, the Polynesians being the obvious example, they would then know something is out there, and can quickly build on the Polynesian technology with the larger material and population base of the Andes. Naturally this rather rules out your Andeans premepting the Polynesians example ;), but if you have Polynesias hitting a more technologically equiped Huari culture in 600 AD or so (assuming max Polynesia spread rate), you could have proper vessels visiting the trading centres in Tonga and Samoa within a century.

Getting to Hawai'i is pretty damn silly though, the winds make it very difficult and its E-W orientation make it easy to miss coming from America - heck two centuries of Spanish Navigation of the pacific passed it by, and it took the Polynesias a long time to get there. Plus why would they bother settling it? They'd lack any of the pressure for space polynesia had, and the commercial explorers and traders of a settled polity aren't going to bring their families along like the ocean nomads of Polynesia would.
 
Looking at the currents, I'd have to agree that Hawaii is probably highly unlikely.

I have to disagree with David about it being more difficult going west than east, those currents head straight for a whole range of possible islands. But there would have to be something to prompt an expansion westward. It could be, perhaps, differing weather patterns and conditions from OTL that area. Perhaps the Andeans take to the sea first, and go further than OTL, reaching Easter Island, Pitcairn and others. Then later a drought or political developments lead to an exodus westwards where they follow the South Equatorial Current to Polynesia. That would allow the Andeans to get there before the Polynesian expansion, but would also mean the infusion of Polynesian naval technology would diffuse, allowing for more reliable contact back with the South American mainland.

Benkarnell's writeup is pretty good, and highlights the key issues. The debate would be just how much of a pre-Colombian exchange could occur with a south Polynesian vector. Many Eurasian diseases also decimated the Polynesiansas well, I believe, but probably some would make the journey. If pigs make it to South America, then zootropic diseases would likely spread there too.
 
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