wolf_brother
Banned
As per your OP;
My comment was such that I doubt such a state would be recognizably Inkan after so long under the Spanish heel, however lightly it was pressed down. Certainly IOTL Peru was nothing like Tawantinsuyu.
Andean Kingdom
- Thread starter The Kiat
- Start date
As per your OP;
My comment was such that I doubt such a state would be recognizably Inkan after so long under the Spanish heel, however lightly it was pressed down. Certainly IOTL Peru was nothing like Tawantinsuyu.
I never expected it to look much like pre-contact. I figured it would be a monarchy (unless/until it gets overthrown). As for what modern "Incan" society would look like, I haven't figured that far ahead. Not as many of direct European decent, and lots more of direct Indian decent. Maybe having Quechua being the dominate language, and having Spanish more of an educated language. It'd have even fewer settler colonists than in OTL.
wolf_brother
Banned
Certainly Quechua would be more widespread than it was during the Latin American Revolutionary Wars IOTL, and more mestizos, but I doubt you'd see more than that. Little cultural things perhaps that aren't squashed out by the Spanish or the missionaries, but you're not going to retain enough of the native society to differentiate it from OTL's Peru.
Also, are we placing a huge butterfly net over the Andes? Why should events in the Americas, let alone in Europe, follow the same course until the 19th century with an Inkan 'protectorate' instead of out-right conquest in the 16th century?
I don't mean to be 'that guy,' because I'm highly interested in this topic myself; its actually what brought me to alternate history in the first place. Unfortunately though I can't find a realistic way to save the native societies in any recognizable form
Basically you're going to end up with IOTL by another route; perhaps a slightly different 'flavor,' but certainly, for the Inkans at least, things aren't going to be that different. You'll still massive die-out from the Eurasian disease brought off, you'll still see their entire social structure come crumbling down..EDIT: Actually, bear with me, because this might actually work, but you'll have to go down a very interesting route to go there. Lets run with your POD and have the Spanish not conquer the Inka, but certainly an unequal treaty or sorts if forced upon them sometime in the late 16th century, perhaps à la China. As the upper-class adopts Spanish customs and ways a sort of, again following the Chinese analogue, Inkan 'White Lotus'-esque rebellion breaks out among the natives for a 'Inka for Inkans' society. If Spanish over-lordship is light enough and the Inkan elite are in a weak enough position you might see an Inkan remnant forming that potentially could be seen as an 'Andean Kingdom.'
Now, with that being said, all of my earlier comments still hold. Politically this might be a new Tawantinsuyu, but culturally its going to be more like IOTL Peru with a dash of flavor. And even then its unlikely to last very long at all, considering the challenges such a state would face. To get to what I think you're going at you're going to need a much earlier POD that either solves the technology-production problem or the disease issues.
Let's see, the beginning of the timeline will go something like this:
1) Conquest Aborted
Due to the relative isolation of his kingdom, Ninan Cuyochi Inca was rather surprised to see a small band of less than two hundred beared stranger cross his northern frontier. Similar strangers were seen along the northern border some years before, and contact with was quickly followed by epidemics the likes the Inca have never seen. Diseases that killed large portions of the Incan population, and that Ninan only barely survived. Had he succumb to the disease, these foreigners would be crossing the border in the midst of a civil war. As it stood, the Inca were in little position to fight any war, not with their population weakening. Still, 180 men, how much trouble could they be?
More than the Sapa Inca could ever bargain. The Castillians, lead by the Pizzarro brothers, were a plague worse than Small Pox. They took whatever they desired, almost with impunity. Ninan feared they might want his throne. If they were truly Gods, then how could he ever hope to prevent this. The invaders first target was the city of Quito. The Quito were conquered by the Inca a century before, and now fell to the Castillians. Reports returning from the field state that the invaders were indeed Gods, that now Inca weapon could even hope to harm them.
By 1533, Pizzarro began his march on the Incan capital of Cuzco. Unlike the ill-fated Aztec Emperor, Ninan did not openly fear the arrival of Pizzarro. Stories of the Castillians and their drinking and whoring made them sound more like men than any Gods. One of the Castillians even died as a result of tripping and falling on his own dagger. Though it took a mighty weapon, these Gods were mortal after all. The Sapa Inca gathered his generals in council and plotted a means to destroy these invaders. All the generals wanted to gather their armies, perhaps a quarter of a million men, and descend upon Pizzarro like a landslide. All save one.
Ninan’s brother, Atahualpa proposed that the invaders be allowed to enter Cuzco. In their honor, they would be quartered in the finest dwelling in the city, while the original noble inhabitants would be evacuated. A great feast will be held in their honor, and the invaders will grow fat and drunk off celebrations. Only when they finally slept would they be dispatched. They might survive stone and bronze, but if they were mortal, then they could not survive fire.
It is believed Pizzarro arrived in Cuzco on September 13, 1533, to great the Sapa Inca. He did so, and demanded that not only Ninan swear allegiance to the Spanish King, but also that the Inca turn over a great deal of gold as tribute. Records of what exactly happened are spotty at best, and were recorded by priests decades after the fact, and usually from second- or third-hand accounts. To by time, Ninan through the banquet as his brother suggested. As predicted, the Castillians relaxed, and eventually fell asleep.
During the night of September 16, Atahualpa moved with thousands of Incan soldiers in surrounding the invaders’ quarters. The following firestorm burnt not only the Castillian Quarters, but a good portion of the wealthier district of the city. The Sapa Inca considered the sacrifice worth it, for despite valiant efforts of the Castillians, not a single Pizzarro brother survived the fire. Only a handful of Castillians managed to fight their way out of fire and surrounding warriors to escape the city. Of these, only one returned to Spanish territory to tell the tale. The loss of the expedition delayed further incursions in to the Incan Empire, though Quito continued to be ruled by the King of New Granada.
1) Conquest Aborted
Due to the relative isolation of his kingdom, Ninan Cuyochi Inca was rather surprised to see a small band of less than two hundred beared stranger cross his northern frontier. Similar strangers were seen along the northern border some years before, and contact with was quickly followed by epidemics the likes the Inca have never seen. Diseases that killed large portions of the Incan population, and that Ninan only barely survived. Had he succumb to the disease, these foreigners would be crossing the border in the midst of a civil war. As it stood, the Inca were in little position to fight any war, not with their population weakening. Still, 180 men, how much trouble could they be?
More than the Sapa Inca could ever bargain. The Castillians, lead by the Pizzarro brothers, were a plague worse than Small Pox. They took whatever they desired, almost with impunity. Ninan feared they might want his throne. If they were truly Gods, then how could he ever hope to prevent this. The invaders first target was the city of Quito. The Quito were conquered by the Inca a century before, and now fell to the Castillians. Reports returning from the field state that the invaders were indeed Gods, that now Inca weapon could even hope to harm them.
By 1533, Pizzarro began his march on the Incan capital of Cuzco. Unlike the ill-fated Aztec Emperor, Ninan did not openly fear the arrival of Pizzarro. Stories of the Castillians and their drinking and whoring made them sound more like men than any Gods. One of the Castillians even died as a result of tripping and falling on his own dagger. Though it took a mighty weapon, these Gods were mortal after all. The Sapa Inca gathered his generals in council and plotted a means to destroy these invaders. All the generals wanted to gather their armies, perhaps a quarter of a million men, and descend upon Pizzarro like a landslide. All save one.
Ninan’s brother, Atahualpa proposed that the invaders be allowed to enter Cuzco. In their honor, they would be quartered in the finest dwelling in the city, while the original noble inhabitants would be evacuated. A great feast will be held in their honor, and the invaders will grow fat and drunk off celebrations. Only when they finally slept would they be dispatched. They might survive stone and bronze, but if they were mortal, then they could not survive fire.
It is believed Pizzarro arrived in Cuzco on September 13, 1533, to great the Sapa Inca. He did so, and demanded that not only Ninan swear allegiance to the Spanish King, but also that the Inca turn over a great deal of gold as tribute. Records of what exactly happened are spotty at best, and were recorded by priests decades after the fact, and usually from second- or third-hand accounts. To by time, Ninan through the banquet as his brother suggested. As predicted, the Castillians relaxed, and eventually fell asleep.
During the night of September 16, Atahualpa moved with thousands of Incan soldiers in surrounding the invaders’ quarters. The following firestorm burnt not only the Castillian Quarters, but a good portion of the wealthier district of the city. The Sapa Inca considered the sacrifice worth it, for despite valiant efforts of the Castillians, not a single Pizzarro brother survived the fire. Only a handful of Castillians managed to fight their way out of fire and surrounding warriors to escape the city. Of these, only one returned to Spanish territory to tell the tale. The loss of the expedition delayed further incursions in to the Incan Empire, though Quito continued to be ruled by the King of New Granada.
Ok, with Pizzarro dead, I'm thinking Spain might be more cautious in dealing with the Inca. Perhaps send a rather heavily armed diplomatic mission to open trade. What does Spain have that the Inca would want? Aside from iron/steel tools? I think the iron deposits in the Andes were too difficult to reach (for 16th Century technology anywhere), which was why the Inca never developed iron working.
2) Trade Mission
In early 1573, the Spanish King ordered a trade mission to penetrate the mountainous Incan Empire. Aside from grabbing Quito, and the Incan lands south of the equator by two degrees, the Spanish Crown has done little concerning the Inca. The destruction of the Pizzarro Expedition, and expedition sent with royal blessing to conquer the Inca, has left Spain cautious in dealing with the Inca. In truth, Spain greatly overestimated Incan power and could have conquered them in 1538, 1544 or 1547, after epidemics swept through the empire. By 1573, the Inca were still recovering the devastation done to their population.
The trade mission left Quite in April. Along with royal delegates and merchants, the mission brought with it a thousand soldiers for protection, and to probe the Inca for weaknesses. Though ordered not to engage them, Ferdinand de la Marco lusted for gold like any other Spaniard. In addition to the soldiers, the recently installed Bishop of Quito sent his own priests to bring the word of God to the heathen. Like everyone else on the mission, the Bishop wanted to extend his own influence deep into the empire.
During the voyage through the empire, they encountered the Incan Army on numerous occasions. De la Marco defeated every attacked launched on him, with minimal losses of his own. Unlike earlier descriptions of the Incan Army, these warriors carried no stone weapons. All their weapons were bronze. Though a soft metal compared to steel, bronze was still an advancement over stone. Many warriors carried spears, some carried maces with bronze spikes, but a few carried blades. The officers of the Incan Army all carried bronze blades as long as the Roman Gladius, though nowhere near as strong. The weapon did little to Spaniard armor, but sliced through any exposed flesh.
The Spanish arrival at Cuzco was a tense event, neither side sure if the other was to attack, or if they should strike first. Under orders of the Crown, de la Marco held his soldiers at bay. At least until the Inca signed the trade agreement. The Sapa Inca, Tupac Ninan, met the trade mission in his palace. He wore around his waist a belt and scabbard. From the scabbard he produced a rusty sword, one taken from the Pizzarro Expedition decades earlier. He believed the weapon a display of power, that the rest of the Empire would not suffer the fate of northern Chinchay Suyu. De la Marco was unimpressed; his soldiers wields swords in better states or repair, as well as arquebuses.
The terms the Spanish explained to him were clear enough. Spain wanted gold and silver; the Sapa Inca had been told many times before ascending the throne that the bearded ones had an insatiable appetite for the precious metal. In exchange for these metals, the Spanish offered tools made of iron, far stronger and durable than those of bronze or copper. Weapons as well; swords far finer than the imitation ones the Inca forged from bronze. If the foreigners wanted nothing more than fancy dinnerware for these fine weapons, Tupac saw little harm in agreeing to the trade. It was not as if they were taking fine cloth. Iron for gold was the central theme of the treaty, but not the only item to be traded.
One point in the treaty, which the Sapa Inca naturally could not read, was the allowance of religious missions to penetrate the Empire. No missions meant no trade. Surrounded by heavily armed Spanish soldiers, de la Marco made it clear that to say ‘no’ to the treaty would be a great mistake. Under some duress, Tupac made his mark on the parchment, opening the Incan Empire to Spanish commercial exploitation and the Catholic Church.
In early 1573, the Spanish King ordered a trade mission to penetrate the mountainous Incan Empire. Aside from grabbing Quito, and the Incan lands south of the equator by two degrees, the Spanish Crown has done little concerning the Inca. The destruction of the Pizzarro Expedition, and expedition sent with royal blessing to conquer the Inca, has left Spain cautious in dealing with the Inca. In truth, Spain greatly overestimated Incan power and could have conquered them in 1538, 1544 or 1547, after epidemics swept through the empire. By 1573, the Inca were still recovering the devastation done to their population.
The trade mission left Quite in April. Along with royal delegates and merchants, the mission brought with it a thousand soldiers for protection, and to probe the Inca for weaknesses. Though ordered not to engage them, Ferdinand de la Marco lusted for gold like any other Spaniard. In addition to the soldiers, the recently installed Bishop of Quito sent his own priests to bring the word of God to the heathen. Like everyone else on the mission, the Bishop wanted to extend his own influence deep into the empire.
During the voyage through the empire, they encountered the Incan Army on numerous occasions. De la Marco defeated every attacked launched on him, with minimal losses of his own. Unlike earlier descriptions of the Incan Army, these warriors carried no stone weapons. All their weapons were bronze. Though a soft metal compared to steel, bronze was still an advancement over stone. Many warriors carried spears, some carried maces with bronze spikes, but a few carried blades. The officers of the Incan Army all carried bronze blades as long as the Roman Gladius, though nowhere near as strong. The weapon did little to Spaniard armor, but sliced through any exposed flesh.
The Spanish arrival at Cuzco was a tense event, neither side sure if the other was to attack, or if they should strike first. Under orders of the Crown, de la Marco held his soldiers at bay. At least until the Inca signed the trade agreement. The Sapa Inca, Tupac Ninan, met the trade mission in his palace. He wore around his waist a belt and scabbard. From the scabbard he produced a rusty sword, one taken from the Pizzarro Expedition decades earlier. He believed the weapon a display of power, that the rest of the Empire would not suffer the fate of northern Chinchay Suyu. De la Marco was unimpressed; his soldiers wields swords in better states or repair, as well as arquebuses.
The terms the Spanish explained to him were clear enough. Spain wanted gold and silver; the Sapa Inca had been told many times before ascending the throne that the bearded ones had an insatiable appetite for the precious metal. In exchange for these metals, the Spanish offered tools made of iron, far stronger and durable than those of bronze or copper. Weapons as well; swords far finer than the imitation ones the Inca forged from bronze. If the foreigners wanted nothing more than fancy dinnerware for these fine weapons, Tupac saw little harm in agreeing to the trade. It was not as if they were taking fine cloth. Iron for gold was the central theme of the treaty, but not the only item to be traded.
One point in the treaty, which the Sapa Inca naturally could not read, was the allowance of religious missions to penetrate the Empire. No missions meant no trade. Surrounded by heavily armed Spanish soldiers, de la Marco made it clear that to say ‘no’ to the treaty would be a great mistake. Under some duress, Tupac made his mark on the parchment, opening the Incan Empire to Spanish commercial exploitation and the Catholic Church.
3) The Spanish Transformation
Before Spain made its presence felt in the Incan Empire, the Inca had limited contract with the outside world. The Inca, and precursor civilizations knew about the Polynesian mariners. It was from the Andes where the sweet potato originiated. Spanish warships began to patrol the Pacific coast of the Empire. In the southern parts of the Empire, both Spanish traders and the navy set up a supply port in Arica, not far from rich veins of silver.
Over the course of the next three decades, various Spanish “Advisors” intermarried with Incan noble families. The upper wrung of Incan society began to assimilate the bearded ones. Assimilation was a two way street. The Spanish language began to spread through nobility, and by 1600 was as commonly spoken as Quechua. Spanish dress, made from Incan wool, was considered the finest of clothing. Even the Sapa Inca began to dress like the Spaniards. Much of this aping of the foreigners brought discontent among Incan priests. Worse than the fashion statements were the inroads made by Catholic missionaries. At first, the Priests attempted to instruct the Incan in Spanish, which required schools to teach the language. When this failed to bring the proper results, some enterprising Priests began to translate the Bible in Quechua.
The Inca had no written language, save the complex serious of knots tied into Quipu. Educated Incans began to write down their language using the same Latin alphabet as Spanish. Literacy spread quickly through the nobility, however they spoke as much Spanish as their ancestor’s tongue, and wrote even less in it. Imperial bureaucrats used the new script more than anyone else, as did Incan priests. Amawtakuna, Incan scholars, began to transcribe oral histories and legends down on paper.
Before Spain made its presence felt in the Incan Empire, the Inca had limited contract with the outside world. The Inca, and precursor civilizations knew about the Polynesian mariners. It was from the Andes where the sweet potato originiated. Spanish warships began to patrol the Pacific coast of the Empire. In the southern parts of the Empire, both Spanish traders and the navy set up a supply port in Arica, not far from rich veins of silver.
Over the course of the next three decades, various Spanish “Advisors” intermarried with Incan noble families. The upper wrung of Incan society began to assimilate the bearded ones. Assimilation was a two way street. The Spanish language began to spread through nobility, and by 1600 was as commonly spoken as Quechua. Spanish dress, made from Incan wool, was considered the finest of clothing. Even the Sapa Inca began to dress like the Spaniards. Much of this aping of the foreigners brought discontent among Incan priests. Worse than the fashion statements were the inroads made by Catholic missionaries. At first, the Priests attempted to instruct the Incan in Spanish, which required schools to teach the language. When this failed to bring the proper results, some enterprising Priests began to translate the Bible in Quechua.
The Inca had no written language, save the complex serious of knots tied into Quipu. Educated Incans began to write down their language using the same Latin alphabet as Spanish. Literacy spread quickly through the nobility, however they spoke as much Spanish as their ancestor’s tongue, and wrote even less in it. Imperial bureaucrats used the new script more than anyone else, as did Incan priests. Amawtakuna, Incan scholars, began to transcribe oral histories and legends down on paper.
Now here's a good question; without all that gold at once, would there have been anything like the Armada of 1588? And if Spain had its wealth spread out over time, how would that effect Spanish power? Would that be a plus or minus for English intents in the New World? Would Spain continue to be strong, and to rack up more and more enemies?
4) Incan Civil War
In 1641, the Sapa Inca died, leaving no clear heir. His son, who seized the throne as Atahuaca II, after killing his older brother, was the favored choice of the Incan Priesthood, though he was not well looked upon by the Hispanized nobility. His half-brother held no legitimate claim to the throne. Alfonse was born to an Incan Princess, mother of Atahuaca, as an illegitimate son to the Spanish noble Don Juan de Quito. The fact that he was not pure blood was not bad enough, but that he was Catholic signed the deal. Though the Church had made great inroads in the Incan Empire, the Incan Priesthood still held great influence in Cuzco. Atahuaca II held similar views to the Priesthood, so much so that he made moves to curtail the religion, starting with the expulsion of hundreds of Jesuits.
The expulsion of the Church was all the excuse that the former King of, now Viceroy of New Grenada, required to launch his own invasion. Instead of outright conquest of the Incan Empire, the Viceroy made the move of installing Alfonse on the Incan Throne. From 1641 to 1647, a brutal civil war raged in the Empire. The Spanish nearly suffered a catastrophic defeat at Vilacbamba in 1643, prematurely ending their attempt to install Alfonse upon the throne. The city was taken after a second assault, and both looted and razed by the Spanish Army. Not an auspicious start to Alfonse’s reign.
Incan weaponry had advanced somewhat in the years since formal contact with Spain. Though not sold many modern weapons, the Inca managed to melt down many of the iron tools they purchased, and turn them into spears and short swords. These weapons, though not as refined as the bladed weapons the Spanish, as well as Alfonse’s Army wielded, could cause great damage close-in. The trick for Atahuaca was to get into melee range. Though he outnumbered his half-brother’s forces and allies, Spanish guns kept Incan charges at bay. The mountain and valley nature of the civil war prevented a great use of Spanish cavalry. Though the Inca learned how to ride horses they either purchased or the feral ones they captured, they never developed combat from horseback.
Cuzco fell to Alfonse in 1646, with Atahuaca and the Priests fleeing south. The Spanish made quick work of the pagan temples in the city, stripping many of their gold ornaments. Alfonse managed to prevent his allies from pillaging the city outright. Atahuaca and his followers fled to the southern banks of Lake Titicaca. With the highways leading to his holdout secure, Atahuaca attempted to rebuild his forces and rally his remaining supporters. His sense of security was premature.
Atahuaca II failed to grasp the geography of the situation. Namely that Spain was on the opposite side of an ocean, and the only way the Spanish could have arrived was if they sailed. Even if he never saw a galleon sail the open ocean, he had seen the occasional Polynesian canoe in his youth. The Pacific Islanders attempted to trade with the Inca, despite the Spanish Navy actively discouraging it. When Alfonse’s Army arrived on the northern shores, the Spanish went about assembling several ships on the beach. By March of 1647, the Spanish launched their assault on Atahuaca by water. With most of his army defending the roads further away, Atahuaca was easily overwhelmed and captured. He ended his days at the end of a rope in one of Cuzco’s squares.
Though Alfonse won the throne, he was not the true victor. The Spanish placed him upon the throne of what they called the Kingdom of Peru. The new kingdom was reduced from the former Empire; Alfonse I was forced to cede to Spain the lands north of 10 degrees South. Loss of land was just the beginning. Alfonse signed a new treaty with Spain, in which Peru was made a Spanish Protectorate, with an annual tribute in silver and gold. This forced much of the annual corvee to be spent extracting riches for Spain. As well as precious metals, Peru was required to supply Spain with soldiers on demand.
With the England expanding out from Guyana, the Protectorate prohibited Peru from trading with anybody but Spain. Spain was concerned of English land grabs, as well as incursions by the Protestants. Peru, and its subjects, were forced to convert to Catholicism. The Spanish Inquisition made certain that the old religion would stay dead. To make this so, the mummies of long dead Emperors were slated to be burned at the stake, but Alfonse convinced the Inquisition to allow them to be properly buried. The Temple of the Sun in Cuzco itself was torn apart and rebuilt as the Cathedral of Santo Domingo, taking some forty-three years to complete. It rivaled some of the cathedral in Europe for majesty. The Church also took sole control of education in Peru. Though one considered educated by European standards spoke Spanish, most Peruvians were educated in Quechua, ensuring at least that part of their identity survived to coming centuries.
In 1641, the Sapa Inca died, leaving no clear heir. His son, who seized the throne as Atahuaca II, after killing his older brother, was the favored choice of the Incan Priesthood, though he was not well looked upon by the Hispanized nobility. His half-brother held no legitimate claim to the throne. Alfonse was born to an Incan Princess, mother of Atahuaca, as an illegitimate son to the Spanish noble Don Juan de Quito. The fact that he was not pure blood was not bad enough, but that he was Catholic signed the deal. Though the Church had made great inroads in the Incan Empire, the Incan Priesthood still held great influence in Cuzco. Atahuaca II held similar views to the Priesthood, so much so that he made moves to curtail the religion, starting with the expulsion of hundreds of Jesuits.
The expulsion of the Church was all the excuse that the former King of, now Viceroy of New Grenada, required to launch his own invasion. Instead of outright conquest of the Incan Empire, the Viceroy made the move of installing Alfonse on the Incan Throne. From 1641 to 1647, a brutal civil war raged in the Empire. The Spanish nearly suffered a catastrophic defeat at Vilacbamba in 1643, prematurely ending their attempt to install Alfonse upon the throne. The city was taken after a second assault, and both looted and razed by the Spanish Army. Not an auspicious start to Alfonse’s reign.
Incan weaponry had advanced somewhat in the years since formal contact with Spain. Though not sold many modern weapons, the Inca managed to melt down many of the iron tools they purchased, and turn them into spears and short swords. These weapons, though not as refined as the bladed weapons the Spanish, as well as Alfonse’s Army wielded, could cause great damage close-in. The trick for Atahuaca was to get into melee range. Though he outnumbered his half-brother’s forces and allies, Spanish guns kept Incan charges at bay. The mountain and valley nature of the civil war prevented a great use of Spanish cavalry. Though the Inca learned how to ride horses they either purchased or the feral ones they captured, they never developed combat from horseback.
Cuzco fell to Alfonse in 1646, with Atahuaca and the Priests fleeing south. The Spanish made quick work of the pagan temples in the city, stripping many of their gold ornaments. Alfonse managed to prevent his allies from pillaging the city outright. Atahuaca and his followers fled to the southern banks of Lake Titicaca. With the highways leading to his holdout secure, Atahuaca attempted to rebuild his forces and rally his remaining supporters. His sense of security was premature.
Atahuaca II failed to grasp the geography of the situation. Namely that Spain was on the opposite side of an ocean, and the only way the Spanish could have arrived was if they sailed. Even if he never saw a galleon sail the open ocean, he had seen the occasional Polynesian canoe in his youth. The Pacific Islanders attempted to trade with the Inca, despite the Spanish Navy actively discouraging it. When Alfonse’s Army arrived on the northern shores, the Spanish went about assembling several ships on the beach. By March of 1647, the Spanish launched their assault on Atahuaca by water. With most of his army defending the roads further away, Atahuaca was easily overwhelmed and captured. He ended his days at the end of a rope in one of Cuzco’s squares.
Though Alfonse won the throne, he was not the true victor. The Spanish placed him upon the throne of what they called the Kingdom of Peru. The new kingdom was reduced from the former Empire; Alfonse I was forced to cede to Spain the lands north of 10 degrees South. Loss of land was just the beginning. Alfonse signed a new treaty with Spain, in which Peru was made a Spanish Protectorate, with an annual tribute in silver and gold. This forced much of the annual corvee to be spent extracting riches for Spain. As well as precious metals, Peru was required to supply Spain with soldiers on demand.
With the England expanding out from Guyana, the Protectorate prohibited Peru from trading with anybody but Spain. Spain was concerned of English land grabs, as well as incursions by the Protestants. Peru, and its subjects, were forced to convert to Catholicism. The Spanish Inquisition made certain that the old religion would stay dead. To make this so, the mummies of long dead Emperors were slated to be burned at the stake, but Alfonse convinced the Inquisition to allow them to be properly buried. The Temple of the Sun in Cuzco itself was torn apart and rebuilt as the Cathedral of Santo Domingo, taking some forty-three years to complete. It rivaled some of the cathedral in Europe for majesty. The Church also took sole control of education in Peru. Though one considered educated by European standards spoke Spanish, most Peruvians were educated in Quechua, ensuring at least that part of their identity survived to coming centuries.
5) Kingdom of Peru
In the late 17th Century, Incan society began to experience a severe rift. The rift was opened between the haves and the have-nots. By 1680, the Peruvian nobility were almost exclusively speaking Spanish in their estates and manors. Even King Alfonse II spoke Spanish in his running of the state. All nobles, at least the pure-blooded Quechua, retain knowledge of their ancestral language, and even could speak it. Since Spanish was fashionable, all those who served the nobles learned the language as well. Newly established Royal Academies were taught exclusively in the new tongue. These academies replaced the old Incan schools for the priesthood. Religion was still taught, though in the new form. The University of Cuzco was the Kingdom’s largest academy, turning out more functionaries and Catholic priests than the rest combined.
Oddly enough, the Church itself used Quechua more than the nobility. Though many missionaries throughout Peru taught the natives Spanish, the Church believed that spreading the message swiftly was more important than spreading it in Spanish. The Incan religion surfaced from time to time, usually in the form of revolts. The last such revolt was put down in 1701. A majority of bibles printed in Peru were printed in the Latinized written Quechua. The average subject of Peru knew little Spanish. Even after a century of exchange between the Andeans kingdom and its new masters, Quechua continued to reign supreme among the lowest classes of society. The underclass grew as newcomers from Spain slowly displaced what could have been called the Incan middle class.
The newcomers treated Peru as an outright colony. The lands they seized for their own were not put to productive use for the people. Instead, cash crops such as coca and coffee began to crowd out food crops. The old system of grain control by the state was privatized, turned over to the control of local land owners. If the Peruvians wanted to eat, they would have to work the plantations. When native labor was not enough, the Spanish, and even some of the native Peruvians, began to import African slaves. To own an African was a sign of wealth among the nobility. Peruvian wealth in general declined between 1660 to 1700, as Spain began to drain it of easily accessed gold and silver deposits.
When Peru could not meet its quota for tribute, Spain extracted other forms of payment. The most famous form was that of the Cuzco Regiment. Peruvian soldiers were used as cannon fodder by Spain during its colonial wars. An attempt to bring Peruvian soldiers to Europe failed miserably as a typhoid epidemic wiped them out. Diseases were the least of a Cuzco soldier’s worries. They were poorly armed compared to Spanish soldiers, as well against Spain’s enemies. Spain’s largest enemy in South America was the English in Guyana. During the invasion of Guyana in 1706, the Cuzco Regiment was nearly annihilated, losing four thousand soldiers in an ill-planned assault against Charlestown.
In the late 17th Century, Incan society began to experience a severe rift. The rift was opened between the haves and the have-nots. By 1680, the Peruvian nobility were almost exclusively speaking Spanish in their estates and manors. Even King Alfonse II spoke Spanish in his running of the state. All nobles, at least the pure-blooded Quechua, retain knowledge of their ancestral language, and even could speak it. Since Spanish was fashionable, all those who served the nobles learned the language as well. Newly established Royal Academies were taught exclusively in the new tongue. These academies replaced the old Incan schools for the priesthood. Religion was still taught, though in the new form. The University of Cuzco was the Kingdom’s largest academy, turning out more functionaries and Catholic priests than the rest combined.
Oddly enough, the Church itself used Quechua more than the nobility. Though many missionaries throughout Peru taught the natives Spanish, the Church believed that spreading the message swiftly was more important than spreading it in Spanish. The Incan religion surfaced from time to time, usually in the form of revolts. The last such revolt was put down in 1701. A majority of bibles printed in Peru were printed in the Latinized written Quechua. The average subject of Peru knew little Spanish. Even after a century of exchange between the Andeans kingdom and its new masters, Quechua continued to reign supreme among the lowest classes of society. The underclass grew as newcomers from Spain slowly displaced what could have been called the Incan middle class.
The newcomers treated Peru as an outright colony. The lands they seized for their own were not put to productive use for the people. Instead, cash crops such as coca and coffee began to crowd out food crops. The old system of grain control by the state was privatized, turned over to the control of local land owners. If the Peruvians wanted to eat, they would have to work the plantations. When native labor was not enough, the Spanish, and even some of the native Peruvians, began to import African slaves. To own an African was a sign of wealth among the nobility. Peruvian wealth in general declined between 1660 to 1700, as Spain began to drain it of easily accessed gold and silver deposits.
When Peru could not meet its quota for tribute, Spain extracted other forms of payment. The most famous form was that of the Cuzco Regiment. Peruvian soldiers were used as cannon fodder by Spain during its colonial wars. An attempt to bring Peruvian soldiers to Europe failed miserably as a typhoid epidemic wiped them out. Diseases were the least of a Cuzco soldier’s worries. They were poorly armed compared to Spanish soldiers, as well against Spain’s enemies. Spain’s largest enemy in South America was the English in Guyana. During the invasion of Guyana in 1706, the Cuzco Regiment was nearly annihilated, losing four thousand soldiers in an ill-planned assault against Charlestown.
...Any idea of the Inca Emperor being overthrown or gotten rid of is unrealistic so long as the Inca remain structurally the same. Assuming that direct interference in government by the Spanish is limited, the Inca remains the head of government and the source of all unity within the Empire, and he is considered a descendant of DIVINITY. No matter how much missionary work occurs, getting people to reject the Emperor entirely is a whole other kettle of fish. Getting rid of the emperor is like cutting the head off a human. Without it, the thing left behind is DEAD, no questions asked. Why do you think the Spanish managed to win the Battle of Cajamarca and subdue all of the Andes? No Emperor, no organized army, no organized resistance.
Another thing to consider is that the Inca Empire is much like Rome in that they ate up damn near any innovation from their conquests, such as Chimu navigation and the aqueducts found in the coastal regions of Peru. Technology from Spain will reach the Inca, and if my supposition is correct, the Inca will jump at it like a starving man to an all-you-can-eat buffet. At that point, I would say the Spanish surviving for long as dominant overlords within the Inca Empire is about as likely as.....China being ruled by Europeans today.
EDIT: I didn't see you already jump for the timeline. I assumed we were still on discussion, my bad :s I'll go and read now.
EDIT2: How would any Spaniard manage to escape Cuzco and an Incan Army and get all the way to Quito? The lone survivor traveled a distance longer than the state of California through mountainous terrain and managed to report to the Spanish presence in Quito(and since you don't put a date for the conquest of Quito, I'm going to assume a year or so since conquest at most) that would be lucky to number over 300? What's stopping the Inca from marching north and putting Quito to siege? Perhaps the huge outbreaks of disease ravaging Northern Peru allowed him to slip through? I feel as if it's a bit too...vague.
Another note worth mentioning, without direct Spanish control, the population of the Andes is going to be MUCH larger in general. The Spanish sent Indians to Potosi to work the mines as labor until they died. I've seen numbers as high as 2 million for estimates as to how many people died mining Potosi for the Spanish(granted, I don't have a source, and I feel like it's an overestimation). In general, most of the Andes will have a higher population due to a lack of forced labor ala Spain. How much, no idea though.
No Emperor, no organized army, no organized resistance.Another thing to consider is that the Inca Empire is much like Rome in that they ate up damn near any innovation from their conquests, such as Chimu navigation and the aqueducts found in the coastal regions of Peru. Technology from Spain will reach the Inca, and if my supposition is correct, the Inca will jump at it like a starving man to an all-you-can-eat buffet. At that point, I would say the Spanish surviving for long as dominant overlords within the Inca Empire is about as likely as.....China being ruled by Europeans today.
EDIT: I didn't see you already jump for the timeline. I assumed we were still on discussion, my bad :s I'll go and read now.
EDIT2: How would any Spaniard manage to escape Cuzco and an Incan Army and get all the way to Quito? The lone survivor traveled a distance longer than the state of California through mountainous terrain and managed to report to the Spanish presence in Quito(and since you don't put a date for the conquest of Quito, I'm going to assume a year or so since conquest at most) that would be lucky to number over 300? What's stopping the Inca from marching north and putting Quito to siege? Perhaps the huge outbreaks of disease ravaging Northern Peru allowed him to slip through? I feel as if it's a bit too...vague.
Another note worth mentioning, without direct Spanish control, the population of the Andes is going to be MUCH larger in general. The Spanish sent Indians to Potosi to work the mines as labor until they died. I've seen numbers as high as 2 million for estimates as to how many people died mining Potosi for the Spanish(granted, I don't have a source, and I feel like it's an overestimation). In general, most of the Andes will have a higher population due to a lack of forced labor ala Spain. How much, no idea though.
Last edited:
I didn't even take into consideration how many natives Spain worked to death. I suppose it would be larger, even with periodic epidemics.
As for innovations, are you speaking of iron working? I'm not sure about Bolivia or Chile, but iron deposits in Peru were hard to reach. They didn't even start mining them until the 20th Century. Seeing how the Inca were already in the bronze age, and had plenty of experience working other metals, the only reason I can think of that they did not make the leap to the iron age was that they lacked the iron. Quite a few Spanish weapons used iron, but that wouldn't stop the natives from making bronze clones of Spanish swords.
As for innovations, are you speaking of iron working? I'm not sure about Bolivia or Chile, but iron deposits in Peru were hard to reach. They didn't even start mining them until the 20th Century. Seeing how the Inca were already in the bronze age, and had plenty of experience working other metals, the only reason I can think of that they did not make the leap to the iron age was that they lacked the iron. Quite a few Spanish weapons used iron, but that wouldn't stop the natives from making bronze clones of Spanish swords.
I don't see the incans developing their own sword making industry, when they could just import spanish swords and guns through trade or smuggling. And Potosi is a very big deal,and should be brought up. It might still end up a major silver and mercury mining center as the Ican nobility fund greater trade relations. If though the Incans don't begin mass silver mining at all and attempts to develop beyond an "extractive" state it has massive knock on effects. 50 percent of Potosi's silver wound up in China and made up a huge growth in money supply in the east. Not to mention the changes in Europe too.
6) Puppet Kingdom
As the 18th Century slowly rolled by, advisors from the Spanish Crown gradually increased their influence and control throughout the Kingdom of Peru. Peruvian Kings were little more than puppets, with Spain pulling the string. The advisors overhauled the penal system of Peru, introducing labor camps for criminals. Most crimes were punishable by sentences of various lengths to newly opened mines throughout Peru. Punishment was not limited to the natives; criminals from Spanish colonies, and Spain herself were sentenced to hard labor. What was once the mighty Incan Empire was rapidly becoming the dumping ground of Spain’s unwanted.
Though sentences were theoretically limited, though put to work in the mines seldom lived out their sentence. Conditions in the mines were harsh, and food seldom sufficient for the work at hand. Periodic epidemics swept the camp, reducing the labor force. No matter how many loses, Spain managed to find more laborers. With wars raging across Europe, Spain needed the silver in those mines more than ever. Crimes punishable by death were being reduced to hard labor. When an uprising his the mountains of Peru in 1767, the Spanish Army, with aid from its Peruvian counterparts, dealt with the rebels harshly. The leaders were executed in gruesome fashion, while those in arms were merely sentenced to the mines.
By 1775, it was clear that Peru was no longer a kingdom, but rather an occupied territory fast on its way to becoming an outright colony. Spanish officials gave up the pretense of working through proper channels, and started issuing orders directly. The Peruvian Army was purged of its own leadership and had Spanish generals placed in command. The army proved even less effective and cooperative. In 1781, while in Guyana, the Regiment mutinied against its Spanish overlords. This action prevented Spain from expelling the British from South America. The rebellious unit was crushed in good time, with only a few soldiers escaping. A handful made it as far as America and France. Though Indians were not overly welcome in these lands, the soldiers learned a great deal about 18th Century liberal ideals, and would eventually take these lessons home.
As the 18th Century slowly rolled by, advisors from the Spanish Crown gradually increased their influence and control throughout the Kingdom of Peru. Peruvian Kings were little more than puppets, with Spain pulling the string. The advisors overhauled the penal system of Peru, introducing labor camps for criminals. Most crimes were punishable by sentences of various lengths to newly opened mines throughout Peru. Punishment was not limited to the natives; criminals from Spanish colonies, and Spain herself were sentenced to hard labor. What was once the mighty Incan Empire was rapidly becoming the dumping ground of Spain’s unwanted.
Though sentences were theoretically limited, though put to work in the mines seldom lived out their sentence. Conditions in the mines were harsh, and food seldom sufficient for the work at hand. Periodic epidemics swept the camp, reducing the labor force. No matter how many loses, Spain managed to find more laborers. With wars raging across Europe, Spain needed the silver in those mines more than ever. Crimes punishable by death were being reduced to hard labor. When an uprising his the mountains of Peru in 1767, the Spanish Army, with aid from its Peruvian counterparts, dealt with the rebels harshly. The leaders were executed in gruesome fashion, while those in arms were merely sentenced to the mines.
By 1775, it was clear that Peru was no longer a kingdom, but rather an occupied territory fast on its way to becoming an outright colony. Spanish officials gave up the pretense of working through proper channels, and started issuing orders directly. The Peruvian Army was purged of its own leadership and had Spanish generals placed in command. The army proved even less effective and cooperative. In 1781, while in Guyana, the Regiment mutinied against its Spanish overlords. This action prevented Spain from expelling the British from South America. The rebellious unit was crushed in good time, with only a few soldiers escaping. A handful made it as far as America and France. Though Indians were not overly welcome in these lands, the soldiers learned a great deal about 18th Century liberal ideals, and would eventually take these lessons home.
Spain would want to keep a degree of control over their vassals, thus limiting what new weapons they would receive.
7) Revolution
The Wars of Napoleon drastically weakened an already second-rate power. With Spain embroiled in wars at home, its colonials seized the opportunity to free themselves from Spanish shackles. The first of her colonies to rebel was that of New Spain, which declared its independence in 1810. New Grenada rose up the following year. The Spanish governor in Bogota demanded that the Peruvian King in Cuzco send soldiers to aid in quashing the rebellion. King Manual III obeyed his masters, but it was of little use. The Peruvian soldiers mutinied, switching sides, joining Simon Bolivar in 1811.
The Spanish overseers in Peru took this as a sign that Peru was disloyal. On January 7, 1812, King Manual was deposed after he refused to send more soldiers. The king reasoned that they would just mutiny, but the Spanish saw it as a sign of rebellion of the Peruvian Crown. After his dispossession, the Spanish advisors took direct control over Peru’s government. When they attempted to give the orders, no longer even pretending to be in the name of the king, the Peruvian Army did indeed rebel. By the end of 1812, the bulk of the army massed and stormed Cuzco, at great losses to itself, to free the king. All Spanish officials in the city were slaughtered.
In the north, the Spanish Army fighting in New Grenada swung south and gambled on a quick war against Peru. In the north of Peru, as well as the southern parts of New Grenada, the Quechua rose up and declared independence on June 4, 1813, establishing the Republic of Tahuatinsuyo. Peruvians loyal to their king declared their own state free of Spanish rule the following month, establishing the Kingdom of Cuzco.
The Spanish Army soon found itself in a quagmire. On both sides it was surrounded by Quechua, as well as the rebel army of New Grenada. Not all the Andean peoples were united in their struggle against Spain. Republican and Monarchist factions in the Andes began to fight each other, as well as Spain. Bolivar’s forces sides with the Republicans of the north, and thus began a twenty year civil war in the former Incan Empire.
The Wars of Napoleon drastically weakened an already second-rate power. With Spain embroiled in wars at home, its colonials seized the opportunity to free themselves from Spanish shackles. The first of her colonies to rebel was that of New Spain, which declared its independence in 1810. New Grenada rose up the following year. The Spanish governor in Bogota demanded that the Peruvian King in Cuzco send soldiers to aid in quashing the rebellion. King Manual III obeyed his masters, but it was of little use. The Peruvian soldiers mutinied, switching sides, joining Simon Bolivar in 1811.
The Spanish overseers in Peru took this as a sign that Peru was disloyal. On January 7, 1812, King Manual was deposed after he refused to send more soldiers. The king reasoned that they would just mutiny, but the Spanish saw it as a sign of rebellion of the Peruvian Crown. After his dispossession, the Spanish advisors took direct control over Peru’s government. When they attempted to give the orders, no longer even pretending to be in the name of the king, the Peruvian Army did indeed rebel. By the end of 1812, the bulk of the army massed and stormed Cuzco, at great losses to itself, to free the king. All Spanish officials in the city were slaughtered.
In the north, the Spanish Army fighting in New Grenada swung south and gambled on a quick war against Peru. In the north of Peru, as well as the southern parts of New Grenada, the Quechua rose up and declared independence on June 4, 1813, establishing the Republic of Tahuatinsuyo. Peruvians loyal to their king declared their own state free of Spanish rule the following month, establishing the Kingdom of Cuzco.
The Spanish Army soon found itself in a quagmire. On both sides it was surrounded by Quechua, as well as the rebel army of New Grenada. Not all the Andean peoples were united in their struggle against Spain. Republican and Monarchist factions in the Andes began to fight each other, as well as Spain. Bolivar’s forces sides with the Republicans of the north, and thus began a twenty year civil war in the former Incan Empire.