Well, did the Forum got offline these previous days? I tried to access it from my phone various times, to no avail.
It did. It was most annoying.
Well, did the Forum got offline these previous days? I tried to access it from my phone various times, to no avail.
So at the latest, Damascus will be in Crusader hands by the 1150's, that will certainly have quite the impact on the entire region. Not only does it have cultural significance to the Muslims for its role as the first capital of the Umayyad Caliphate, but it also provides the Crusaders with a strong defensive position with which they can protect themselves from the Eastern Muslim Polities, not to mention the economic benefits holding it would give the Crusaders.By the 1150s, their headquarters had already been moved to Damascus, where they would remain for centuries to come.
The forum is back online and Rdffigueira posts an update, happy day! So at the latest, Damascus will be in Crusader hands by the 1150's, that will certainly have quite the impact on the entire region. Not only does it have cultural significance to the Muslims for its role as the first capital of the Umayyad Caliphate, but it also provides the Crusaders with a strong defensive position with which they can protect themselves from the Eastern Muslim Polities, not to mention the economic benefits holding it would give the Crusaders. On a side note, I will say that while Knights Templarian doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well as Knights Templar, it makes sense that the name would be slightly different given the different people involved with its founding and the different circumstances in the Holy Land ITTL as opposed to IOTL.
Question: Besides immigration from Europe and a gradual conversion of non-Christian Levantines, would we get immigration from Christian minorities in Muslim ruled lands seeking sanctuary in the Kingdom of Jerusalem? Like the Assyrians?
This hit the worldbuilding spot! Besides the 1150s in Damascus thing, I’m also curious about the Jerusalemite Constitution. What is that based on IOTL? Lastly, I wanna see those Cenacularians get up to shady stuff haha
Big leak with Damascus - and with a Byzantine Aleppo partially defended by Templars (shoulda gone with Lion of Judah/Solomonic naming ). The Cenacularians seem pretty intriguing -- and I have to wonder who'll take up the Michaelites once the age of major Norman lords finally dies away...
Hospitallers as partial Jesuits? Sounds interesting
Notes and comments: I changed the name and the original concept of the Templars for two reasons: this is Alt-Hist; and I want this to indicate how the institution will grow to be somewhat different in scope and in the geopolitical relations involving Jerusalem than IOTL. The Templar (or Templarian) Order will play a huge role in the internal politics of Jerusalem, and they will grow strong, this I promise you but their development will be somewhat different.
You'll see that I also "demoted" the Hospitallers to a non-military order. This doesn't means that they won't be relevant to the grand narrative; much on the contrary, I figured it would be interesting to have them fill the shoes of an institution that plays a very early role of an international NGO. They'll be more developed as a proto-scientific and medical institution, with feet in various European monarchies. How this will work out... again, we'll see as the TL unfolds.
Good update, quite a bit new information and worldbuilding as others already said.
Interesting, I'll wait and see what you come up with Now this is even better. Perhaps there could an early acceptance of the scientific method through research in curative matters...
At the moment I am, curiously enough, reading The Shield and the Sword, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/371304
The long term butterflies of this will be interesting if the crusaders establish a dominant position in the levant and perhaps Egypt.
How does this affect Andalausia and the reconquista?
Will the Mongols be inclined to convert to Christianity if and when they arrive?
Could we crusading ventures farther afield such as in the Horn of Africa, Tunisia and Morocco, and perhaps Libya?
Also will the crusaders retain their current ethnic composition from Europe or will they acquire a more cosmpolitan(within the bounds of Christendom) sort of character-with Eastern Europeans-Poles, Lithuanians(if and when they convert from paganism), Scandinavians, Hungarians, among others arriving either as permanent settlers or at least on more regular pilgrims? Might we see crusaders coming from even farther afield-Scotland? Ireland even?
How will the long term success of the crusader project affect Western European development-in terms of its ideological underpinnings, demography, and economy?
Could this delay contact with the new world if trade with Asia remains open and in Christian hands-with no Muslim middle man?
I almost feel this calls for an entire separate thread to discuss - I personally think the real driver will remain the development of ships capable of sailing past the West-African horrible zone (I'm sure it has a more formal name); once you're past the Ivory Coast, the rest is just more of the same. And once that works, the route back past Brazil will rather quickly find America (of course there might never be a wacko who thinks sailing straight west from Spain would work to get to the Indies, and hence the discovery of the gold-possessing American natives might take longer).And very much likely the New World will be discovered later (not counting "Vinland") than OTL by the reason you said. But, as I said many times before, these questions are well beyond the POD, and many stuff can happen until there.
Tunisia might have some light presence, but I doubt it would last,
If you wanted to have more of a Scottish connection you could have Robert the Bruce fulfill his vow to go to on crusade before he dies, or perhaps have James Douglass survive the Battle of Teba and continue on to Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teba
True, it was just a little thought that popped into my brainThat’s about 200 years after the POD.
The Normans would probably try here as they did IOTL; maybe even more than once if they’re more profitable from the Outremer trade. Doesn’t mean it would last, of course.
If you wanted to have more of a Scottish connection you could have Robert the Bruce fulfill his vow to go to on crusade before he dies, or perhaps have James Douglass survive the Battle of Teba and continue on to Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teba
That’s about 200 years after the POD.
True, it was just a little thought that popped into my brain
If you decide to make a Irish order may i suggest the order of Saint Patrick
What about some Lazarutians?