An Unexpected Prince

VVD0D95

Banned
Pressure and well you know... James III and Anne’s son are still in their cradle and can always die so Marie Louise’s full french child has a good shot to the crown... Just a little less obvious and dangerous of the game who Louis played with OTL with his grandson/grandnephew in place of OTL James II and James III
Hmm tbis is true
Given that Princess of Orange is sterile, then yes, Louis XIV would like any issue of Dowager Queen of Spain being born French princes/princesses.
also true thiughnthere is a ticking clock in that regard
 
also true thiughnthere is a ticking clock in that regard
Mary is generally considered even healthier than Anne; so in Louis' opinion it's better to marry Marie Louise to Dauphin (to a great rejoicing of Duchesse d'Orleans, her stepmother, as the highest ranked lady at the court now is her stepdaughter; not to mention no humilation of bastard Duchess of Chartres TTL), wait for a child or two, and keep the backup pretender for reverse Hundred Years War just in case.
 
As for Duke of Modena, he in OTL sought to limit French influence in the Duchies. So he'll likely marry the OTL Mrs. Jakub Sobieski aka Hedwig of Neuburg (unless Hedwig ends up in Tuscany as TTL wife of Gian Gastone de Medici; which would be nice change of things even if Anna de Medici still ends up Duchess of Modena - no succession crisis in Tuscany TTL).
 

VVD0D95

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Mary is generally considered even healthier than Anne; so in Louis' opinion it's better to marry Marie Louise to Dauphin (to a great rejoicing of Duchesse d'Orleans, her stepmother, as the highest ranked lady at the court now is her stepdaughter; not to mention no humilation of bastard Duchess of Chartres TTL), wait for a child or two, and keep the backup pretender for reverse Hundred Years War just in case.
True
As for Duke of Modena, he in OTL sought to limit French influence in the Duchies. So he'll likely marry the OTL Mrs. Jakub Sobieski aka Hedwig of Neuburg (unless Hedwig ends up in Tuscany as TTL wife of Gian Gastone de Medici; which would be nice change of things even if Anna de Medici still ends up Duchess of Modena - no succession crisis in Tuscany TTL).
also very true though seeing hedwig in Tuscany would be nice perhaps she abd gian night actually get along
 
also very true though seeing hedwig in Tuscany would be nice perhaps she abd gian night actually get along
If a heir is produced in due time, then Francesco Maria does not have to leave the cardinalate (and his OTL wife does not have to suffer the stupid marriage with him); Gian Gastone, meanwhile, would be likely named Duke of Rovere instead of his uncle, who is just another cardinal dying of STDs TTL.
 
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VVD0D95

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If a heir is produced in due time, then Ferdinando Maria does not have to leave the cardinalate (and his OTL wife does not have to suffer the stupid marriage with him); Gian Gastone, meanwhile, would be likely named Duke of Rovere instead of his uncle, who is just another cardinal dying of STDs TTL.
Seems reasonable to me /)
 

VVD0D95

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If a heir is produced in due time, then Francesco Maria does not have to leave the cardinalate (and his OTL wife does not have to suffer the stupid marriage with him); Gian Gastone, meanwhile, would be likely named Duke of Rovere instead of his uncle, who is just another cardinal dying of STDs TTL.
In that case who would his otl bride marry if anyone?
 
In that case who would his otl bride marry if anyone?
A natural candidate would be as the 2nd wife to Duke of Mantua instead of Lorraine princess he married in OTL - that would allow to keep Guastala claim, as she's the niece of his first wife.
 
“I do, my lord speaker.” Sidney said. He produced the document. “I hold in my hands evidence that the honourable lord Shrewsbury attempted to produce a forged letter and other such papers that he would use to accuse Her Highness the Duchess of Cumberland and the King’s own sister, of treason.”

This investigation could get very messy. It is a fact that several high ranking lords conspired with a foreign power (i.e. William) to overthrow the rightful King of England. Now IOTL there was trouble with this and it was only solved by the legal nicety which said that James abdicated his throne. Here there is no such defence. It also incriminates a close ally and the King's other daughter by implication.

I don't think Anne can distance herself completely from this as she will be seen as guilty by association. The only saving grace is that I think at the moment there is no evidence other than the seven lords asking William for help. I don't think there is any commitment from William to help. IOTL he was holding out for confirmation of a popular opinion to replace the former king.

The accused can and probably will use the defence that they were trying to bring about the situation we currently have - and that with the natural death of the king their plots would not have proceeded. The forgery of the letter though is something that some of them will be guilty of - and that is treason enough.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
This investigation could get very messy. It is a fact that several high ranking lords conspired with a foreign power (i.e. William) to overthrow the rightful King of England. Now IOTL there was trouble with this and it was only solved by the legal nicety which said that James abdicated his throne. Here there is no such defence. It also incriminates a close ally and the King's other daughter by implication.

I don't think Anne can distance herself completely from this as she will be seen as guilty by association. The only saving grace is that I think at the moment there is no evidence other than the seven lords asking William for help. I don't think there is any commitment from William to help. IOTL he was holding out for confirmation of a popular opinion to replace the former king.

The accused can and probably will use the defence that they were trying to bring about the situation we currently have - and that with the natural death of the king their plots would not have proceeded. The forgery of the letter though is something that some of them will be guilty of - and that is treason enough.

Agreed, and that they tried to accuse Anne of outright treason through the forgery will probably get them into a hot mess
 
Chapter 35: A Mother's Heart

VVD0D95

Banned
Chapter 35: A Mother’s Heart



September, 1692



“I still don’t understand why you read these letters but don’t visit your son.” Francesco, Duke of Modena said to his sister Mary.

Mary had had this conversation with herself many times, and still the answer remained the same. “I do not want to make things more difficult for my son than they already are.” That was the truth, she knew how it would look if she as a Catholic ventured to England right now.

“What?” Francesco asked sounding confused. “You are the boy’s mother, his sister has herself invited you numerous times to come and see your son. She writes monthly reports on how he is getting on for you. You read them, and I know they are the best part of your month. So, why aren’t you going to see him? It makes no sense.”

“I’ve already told you, Francesco.” Mary replied, her patience wearing thin.

“Well, I don’t believe you.” Francesco said.

Mary looked at her brother and asked. “Why? What reason would I have to lie?” She knew what reason there was, but she didn’t want to admit it to herself.

“You are scared. When Princess Anne offered you the chance to stay in England and be there for your son, you left. You took the easy way out, and now you’re scared that if you go back you won’t be able to leave. You don’t want to see your son because you know that if you do that you won’t want to leave. You can say that your presence would put him in danger, but I think you know that’s a lie. It wouldn’t put him in danger, but it would ruin this image you’ve constructed for yourself.” Francesco ranted.

“And what image is that?” Mary asked.

“The image that you can be okay having given birth to the boy, having promised his father that you would ensure he was raised properly, that you can be okay with having him raised by his half-sister, and by a court that is using him. That you can be okay with knowing that the boy refers to his sister as his mother. I know what that did to you. I saw it on your face.” Francesco said. “SO, again I ask, why?”

Mary looked at her brother, she knew that look on his face, she knew that if she gave the same answer as before, she would not hear the end of this. And she truly did want to hear the end of this and move on. So, reluctantly she said. “You are right.” Her brother harrumphed and Mary pressed on. “I know that if I go back to London, I will not want to leave, nor will I be able to. I cannot bear the thought of my son knowing someone else as his mother, but it must be that way. If that makes me selfish then so be it.” her brother was about to speak, so Mary raised a hand silencing him. “I also know that if I go to London now then things will get even more complicated for Princess Anne. After all the opposition is trying to turn the proceedings against them into one against her. They are accusing her of crimes that she says she has not committed. My presence there during such a period could be used against her in ways I cannot imagine. I do not want to do that to her.”

Her brother looked as if he were about to protest, but instead he simply nodded and instead asked. “Do you think she did what they are accusing her of?”

“No. Anne is not so foolish as that. I do however, have no doubt that the people she is accusing of treason committed it.” Mary said.

“Why?” Francesco asked.

Mary thought back to her own impressions of the men who were now standing accused and said. “Devonshire has hungered for power since the moment he knew what it was. Shrewsbury is devious. He left court very quickly during the Seven Bishops issue. As for the others they are all people who follow on from where the other two lead.”

“So, what do you think will happen now?” Francesco asked.

“Let us just say it is a good thing you married Charlotte and not a French princess.” Mary said referring to her sister by marriage Charlotte of Brunswick Lunenburg who her brother had married earlier in the year and who was now heavy with child.

Francesco laughed. “So, I was right to go against you?”

Mary said nothing for a moment and then sighed. “I suppose you were, yes.”
 
Regarding Dowager Queen of Spain, she was really friendly with Anne of York when both were children and Anne stayed with her cousins for a year or so getting treatment from poor eyesight. So Louis' plan for backup pretender may backfire if the new Dauphine begins to a) interfere with dealings of Cabal de Medoun; b) keeps friendly correspondence with her cousin across the strait that is not quite in Louis' best interests.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Regarding Dowager Queen of Spain, she was really friendly with Anne of York when both were children and Anne stayed with her cousins for a year or so getting treatment from poor eyesight. So Louis' plan for backup pretender may backfire if the new Dauphine begins to a) interfere with dealings of Cabal de Medoun; b) keeps friendly correspondence with her cousin across the strait that is not quite in Louis' best interests.

Oh I like that a lot, and in terms of interfering with the Cabal de Medoun, what sort of interference might she run?
 
Well, at least keep away plotting against new Duchess of Burgundy - to whom Marie Louise would be the aunt as well as stepmother in law - and acting as mediator between forming "young court" and old court,
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Well, at least keep away plotting against new Duchess of Burgundy - to whom Marie Louise would be the aunt as well as stepmother in law - and acting as mediator between forming "young court" and old court,

I like that :£
 
Also, if Marie Louise produces a son with Dauphin, the boy would likely be styled Duc de Normandie - if only to highlight his potential British pretender status (though Duc d'Aquitaine works just as well for the same meaning).
 

VVD0D95

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Also, if Marie Louise produces a son with Dauphin, the boy would likely be styled Duc de Normandie - if only to highlight his potential British pretender status (though Duc d'Aquitaine works just as well for the same meaning).

oooh Intetesting thay would aggravate the English for sure
 
Also, if Marie Louise produces a son with Dauphin, the boy would likely be styled Duc de Normandie - if only to highlight his potential British pretender status (though Duc d'Aquitaine works just as well for the same meaning).
They can have two sons, a Duke of Normandy and a Duke of Aquitaine...
 
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