An open conservative anti-Nazi revolt in Germany during WWII?

The July 20 bomb plotters, the Kreisau Circle, and other anti-Hitler groups get a lot of attention in AH, mostly in what-ifs about if they could really have taken over the government and how they would have affected the war. But from a popular perception standpoint, they were people who operated in the shadows, and who ultimately failed. Could there have been a more widespread uprising toward the end of the war to either 1. prevent the high command from driving the country towards imminent destruction and 2. halt the war atrocities taking place?

Even if such an attempt fails, it would lead to a more public perception that, "ah, there were some good Germans who fought and died against the Nazis, there was an attempt to create an alternative identity." Would especially if interesting if this revolt, like the Valkyrie plotters, were made up of Wehrmacht officers and soldiers who were mostly concerned about 1. and still wanted a traditional government, but just wanted the fascists out because they were messing up the country. And so, this would confuse future far-right movements, as neo-Nazis would be divided against those who supported the attempt of these neo-Junkers.
 
One point of departure that would have strengthened the position of German conservatives would have been a decision, made by the British government early in the Battle of Britain (or beforehand) to refrain from bombing German cities. This would have deprived the National Socialists, and, in particular, the "golden pheasants" of the party hierarchy, of the legitimacy that they gained from their relief work. It would also have weakened the National Socialist argument that the Anglo-Saxon powers were trying to destroy Germany as a state and that only the National Socialists could prevent this.
 
Some folks argue the Unconditional Surrender policy implemented in January 1943 undercut the moderates in Germany. My take is the Gestapo & other fanatics had such complete control by 1941 U-S was the only sensible policy
 

LotusFlower

Banned
Many would also argue that public pressure in Britain would make Churchill (or probably someone else) sue for peace with Germany.
 
Would the conservatives actually be able to win popular support when even an immediate peace would still have Germany lose nearly a quarter of her Weimar era territory to the Soviet Union and Poland?
 

LotusFlower

Banned
Would the conservatives actually be able to win popular support when even an immediate peace would still have Germany lose nearly a quarter of her Weimar era territory to the Soviet Union and Poland?
The Soviet Union wanted complete surrender of the Germans no matter what. They never wanted to be invaded by Germany again and they made that very clear at Yalta and Potsdam.
 
Some folks argue the Unconditional Surrender policy implemented in January 1943 undercut the moderates in Germany. My take is the Gestapo & other fanatics had such complete control by 1941 U-S was the only sensible policy

By Mid-1943 the fanatics were indeed in complete control, but not before. The combination of Stalingrad defeat, the unconditional surrender demand, and various stuff like the Morgenthau plan as well as Kauffman's idiotic booklet have been playing into the hands of the internal propaganda apparatus and shored up their power. In 1941, the regime was still forced to listen to popular sentiments as long as they were loud enough - when the Gestapo has rounded up "Half-Jews" of Berlin, their non-jewish spouses staged a spontaneous demonstration, and the order to arrest them was rescinded. By late 1943, the demonstrators would be probably rounded up and sent to Auschwitz along with their half-jewish spouses - but not 2 years earlier.
 
I understand that, but the ability to organize political opposition of substance was gone outside the Army, & even that was endangered and driven deep. That the Army could not organize a successful assassination says a lot.
 

LotusFlower

Banned
What public pressure? From what direction, from what group(s)?
From the bottom up and the top irrelevant whether they were from the left or right. We all know that bombing cities galvanized support for the war, the media presented every new bombing as a martyred city in order to gain support. Before cities began to get hit in response to Churchill bombing German cities the war was distant and people were frustrated and angry that there was another war.
 
From the bottom up and the top irrelevant whether they were from the left or right. We all know that bombing cities galvanized support for the war, the media presented every new bombing as a martyred city in order to gain support. Before cities began to get hit in response to Churchill bombing German cities the war was distant and people were frustrated and angry that there was another war.

Really? I'd be interested in seeing actual evidence for this view
 

LotusFlower

Banned
Really? I'd be interested in seeing actual evidence for this view
The government was worried e.g Kenneth Clark the head of films division at MOI said "the public had to be convinced of German barbarity", although the public were against Hitler they were not willing to have another devastating war just to defend foreign countries.
 
The government was worried e.g Kenneth Clark the head of films division at MOI said "the public had to be convinced of German barbarity", although the public were against Hitler they were not willing to have another devastating war just to defend foreign countries.

This all sounds a little conspiracy theory-like at the moment, I'm afraid. While I'm not going to claim jingoistic argument that the British public were ready to fight to the last German, the notion that it was only the Blitz that actually led to full-throated support for the war is hard to support
 

LotusFlower

Banned
This all sounds a little conspiracy theory-like at the moment, I'm afraid. While I'm not going to claim jingoistic argument that the British public were ready to fight to the last German, the notion that it was only the Blitz that actually led to full-throated support for the war is hard to support
The Blitz and the propaganda machine which was created to exploit the bombings.
 

LotusFlower

Banned
Again, can you actually cite proof of this theory?
Do you know of any public surveys conducted by organisations other than the government that disprove my theory (that the British public were not in favour of the war prior to German bombing of the cities)?.
 
Do you know of any public surveys conducted by organisations other than the government that disprove my theory (that the British public were not in favour of the war prior to German bombing of the cities)?.

No that's not how this works - if you advance a controversial theory, you have to provide supporting evidence
 
Top