An Islamic Russia

In the late dark ages, Vladimir Svyatoslavich, was the Grand Prince of Kiev in the land of the Russ. He sent envoys to study the different religions in order to find a mass unifying force. IOTL he chose Christianity(east church). He sent envoys to study the Jews and the Muslims. What Vladimir had found Islam to be preferable? How would an Islamic Russia develope?
 
Hm, it's an interesting idea.

If Russia is Islamic, I wonder, would it focus West, towards Europe (as much) in its diplomacy, alliances and military conquests,
or would it focus on North-East Africa, Central Asia (more) and the Middle-East, or otherwise the Ottoman Empire.

Would the Russian Tsar at some point delcare himself Caliph?
 
It's said that the reason he disregarded Islam IOTL was because they were trying to tell him he had to kneel towards some city somewhere far to the south several times a day like some kind of servant, that he couldn't eat pork and the worst of all was that to be Muslim he'd have to give up alcohol.

Say what you want about alcohol but in early Medieval Russia you'd pretty much need it to survive. Not because you get drunk, but because it's the only safe way to get a liquid drink.

Although if they can overcome that somehow (a new Russian school of Islam that doesn't care particularly much about the alcohol ban, maybe?) you could have a Muslim Russia, but I doubt it would see eye to eye with the other Muslims to the south, instead it is leaving itself open to crusaders from the west and a lot of hostility with Christendom. On the other hand an Islamic Russia might actually be less conservative and stuck in its ways than the Orthodox one was IOTL. There might be a Russian state that experiences enlightenment earlier than IOTL Peter the Great.
 
It was not only a question of each religion's prescriptions, but (chiefly) a political decision: when Vladimir made his choice, the (Jewish) Khazars were declining, the Muslim world was fractured into several competing states and in a relatively weakened state, the Pope was far away and rather unimportant. Byzantium on the other hand was at the height of its power and influence, it was furthermore the main trading partner of the Rus' to the south, and there were already orthodox converts in positions of influence (e.g. Olga of Kiev). For Russia to go islamic there'd have to be some major incentive, which, at that particular time, was absent.

If Vladimir had made the choice of Islam however, Russia would be relatively isolated from the rest of the Muslim world, and would likely develop its own brand of Islam in the long run, although it would still have strong ties with Muslim Central Asia and the Middle East. Hence it might probably be more Persian-influenced. Also count on more frequent interventions from the West in the form of crusades (Poland might benefit greatly from this).
 
Last edited:
Say what you want about alcohol but in early Medieval Russia you'd pretty much need it to survive. Not because you get drunk, but because it's the only safe way to get a liquid drink.

Distillation wasn't invented yet (or at least not applied to drinks). The Slavs had some kind of beer as pretty much every culture does, but I'm not sure whether it was sufficiently safe source of drinkable water.

Although if they can overcome that somehow (a new Russian school of Islam that doesn't care particularly much about the alcohol ban, maybe?) you could have a Muslim Russia, but I doubt it would see eye to eye with the other Muslims to the south, instead it is leaving itself open to crusaders from the west and a lot of hostility with Christendom.

Geographics alone force some degree of isolation on Russia, in this case along with the geopolitical reasons even less cultural transfer than OTL will take place with the West.

Another factor in choosing to interact with Byzantium, which is unchangeable, is the transportation system. The major rivers of Kievan Rus and neighbourhood (Dniepr, Bug etc.) run from north to south. Overland transportation was slow, expensive and risky at the time; rivers and coastal navigation connected rather than divided places. And if you follow the north-south rivers, where do you land? right, Byzantian territory.
 
Russia without Vodka? This is ASB. ;)

Seriously, Russian culture would develop very differently - instead the main influences being being Greek and Church Slavic, they would be Arabic, Persian, and Turkic. As Russia didn't have an own literary language at that time, this place would be taken by Arabic and / or Persian, leading to a much wider separation between the literate elites (clergy) and the non-literate (Church Slavic and Old Russian were very similar, which is not true with regards to main Islamic literary languages at the time). It would also lead to increased animosity between Russia and its neighbours to the West and South-West, Poland, the Bulgarians, and Byzantium.
If we assume that other major developments stay the same, here are some of the possibilities:
1) Russia may become a target of the Crusades. Of course, IOTL Russia also had its conflicts with the Teutonic order, but ITTL this would be worse and perhaps more Christian nations would be involved. It also may mean that Western crusaders would concentrate less on the Baltic shore.
2) If we assume that the Mongols come conquering as IOTL, they probably would crush Russia as well. But without the antagonism between the Islamicised Tatars and the Orthodox Christian Russians, assimilation to the Turko-Mongolian political system may be even stronger, with Mongolian dynasties taking root in Russia, Russian rulers using Mongolian titles like Khan, etc. Again there would be stronger antagonism with the Western neighbours, and the main goal of Russian rulers would be jihad against the pagan Lithuanians and the Christian Poles etc., not the liberation from the Tatar yoke. Russian independence would be gained by Russian Khans asserting their independence from the Steppe-based Tatars, but as the main enemy would be the Western neighbours, there would be less of an ideological background to this.
3) An Islamic Novgorod would be less open to the West and would play less of a special role; it would be just one of the Russian territories not directly ruled by the Volga Khanate.
4) The Lithuanian expansion of the 13th/14th century would probably run into resistance earlier. With the stronger polarisation between Russia and its Western neighbours, the Lithuanian elite would have to choose early on between Islam and Catholicism.
5) If we get a united Islamic Russia, it may become an ally of the Ottomans, at least until their borders meet and they become rivals.
6) Probably Russia (or Russian Khanates) would still expand East to Siberia - empty spaces are empty spaces.
7) There would be less of a difference between Cossacks and the Muslim steppe tribes. That may either hamper or speed up Russian conquest of the Steppe.
8) As an Islamic state, Russia may have more problems than IOTL with opening up to and implementing Western ideas and reforms. Its modern history (17th century onwards) would probably be quite different.
9) Without the bond of the Orthodox church and the "3rd Rome" ideology, Russia will be less interested in the Balkans.
 
Last edited:
wannis described it well, but I'd like reiterate the Persian influence; Orthodox Russia is already heavily indebted to Persia for all sorts of ideas and technologies (and the reverse is true in the 19th/20th c. though in a less friendly fashion), a Muslim Russia would be more so.

However, a Muslim Russia may well be drawn into all sorts of interesting and potentially ruinous adventures on behalf of their eastern allies. Timur or his equivalent may take them far more seriously this time around, for example.
 
It’d make a great caption:

Muslim Russia we have harems & booze.:p

On a more serious note war with Byzantium is possible, and the Caucasus may come under Rus control sooner, along with other lands assuming an alliance with the Turks can be forged.

I dont see crusades being launched by anyone expect the Poles with some Teutonic backing perhaps, Russia is just too distant for Europe to get worked up about, the Holy Land is richer and more an attention grabber.
 
There is no way that Vladimir would have converted to Islam. For one thing, the seeds of the Rus Christianization were planted when his grandmother Olga, the mother of Sviatoslav, converted to the Orthodox faith herself. Greek priests would have been in the employ of the Kievan Rus' royal family since then. Plus, Islamic influence was rather negligable among the Volga Bulgars and northern Turkic groups at this time.

One certain way to have an Islamic Russia would be to ensure the durability of the Golden Horde/Kipchak Khanate from the time of Uzbeg Khan, the man whom made Islam the official religion of the Mongol-Tatars in Russia. Maybe prevent the decline of the Khanate by saving Tinibeg from being assassinated by Janibeg, and from there ensure a continuous dynasty. And even then, you'll have to find a way to prevent any of the Rus principalities, like Muscovy, from gaining too much power. And also, avoid fighting a war with Tamerlane in the late 1300's.
 
The easiest way to Islamacize Russia is to have the Muslims conquer Byzantium much, much earlier than OTL. That would mean that Russia would have several strong incentives to go Muslim, and very few to go Christian. Of course, that introduces whole fleets of butterflies.
 
Although if they can overcome that somehow (a new Russian school of Islam that doesn't care particularly much about the alcohol ban, maybe?) you could have a Muslim Russia, but I doubt it would see eye to eye with the other Muslims to the south, instead it is leaving itself open to crusaders from the west and a lot of hostility with Christendom.

Actually, the easy way to get around the alcohol ban would be to say that Mohammed only forbade wine, and not any other type of alcohol. Hence, you can keep the vodka going.
 
Beer vodka are made from potatoes.

Actually, vodka is made from just about anything, but hard grains are the most traditional way to do it.

Potatoes are the economy version.

That said, vodka appears as a name in the 16th century (for a herb-and-fruit liquor, actually) and as a modern distilled drink in the 18th. It may have appeared earlier in Poland than Russia as well, to ruin the stereotype some more.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Actually, vodka is made from just about anything, but hard grains are the most traditional way to do it.

Potatoes are the economy version.

That said, vodka appears as a name in the 16th century (for a herb-and-fruit liquor, actually) and as a modern distilled drink in the 18th. It may have appeared earlier in Poland than Russia as well, to ruin the stereotype some more.

Interesting, but yes the first mentioned North European distilled products seem to be from that periode.
 
Beer vodka are made from potatoes.
Abu Hanifa initially said that Muhammad only forbade date and grape wine but other varieties imbibed without getting drunk, were tolerable. That was eventually changed but just have it survive. It's what I'm doing in my TL.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Abu Hanifa initially said that Muhammad only forbade date and grape wine but other varieties imbibed without getting drunk, were tolerable. That was eventually changed but just have it survive. It's what I'm doing in my TL.

Potato came to Russia in the 18th century.
 
Top