An Irish history question

I am looking for someone to replace Edward Bruce as is brother favored candidate for High King of Ireland in 1315.

Ideally an Irish who could be able to gain more support among Irish people and nobility.

Did Anyone have a candidate in mind?
 
Personally, I think you would have the most chance amongst the Gaelo-Norman lords of the Pale, and of these the FitzGeralds of Desmond and Molested had the most prestige. Unfortunately, the FitzGeralds were rather loyal to the English crown at this point. John FitzGerald might be the best chance if you can sour his relations with Edward II.

You might also want to look at the various branches of the O'Neil family, but I'm unsure their standing at this point.

Honestly, if you really want to see an independent Ireland at this point, your best bet might be to have a different brother of Robert the Bruce survive. Edward was such an idiot.
 
Personally, I think you would have the most chance amongst the Gaelo-Norman lords of the Pale, and of these the FitzGeralds of Desmond and Molested had the most prestige. Unfortunately, the FitzGeralds were rather loyal to the English crown at this point. John FitzGerald might be the best chance if you can sour his relations with Edward II.

You might also want to look at the various branches of the O'Neil family, but I'm unsure their standing at this point.

Honestly, if you really want to see an independent Ireland at this point, your best bet might be to have a different brother of Robert the Bruce survive. Edward was such an idiot.

Noted for the Anglo-norman lords, and the O'Neil's. Since it is, after all, Edward II who is king of England it should be fairly easy to mare anyone relation with England :p. Did you have any idea wich one of them could be well placed to gain the Bruce support in their quest for independance?

I always interpreted Edward nomination as a way for Bruce to de facto rule Ireland, wich will be the case with another Bruce brother too, was I wrong?
 
Noted for the Anglo-norman lords, and the O'Neil's. Since it is, after all, Edward II who is king of England it should be fairly easy to mare anyone relation with England :p. Did you have any idea wich one of them could be well placed to gain the Bruce support in their quest for independance?

I always interpreted Edward nomination as a way for Bruce to de facto rule Ireland, wich will be the case with another Bruce brother too, was I wrong?

Oh, yeah, the Bruce certainly wanted to be the defacto ruler in Ireland; he based the legimacy of his family's claims on being a a lineal descendant of Brian Boru. This is one of the reasons that that I would suggest going with a more compitent brother; he is likely is actuallyfulfill the war aims, and is willing to work within Robert's sphere.

The chances are good that few native lords of Ireland would be willing to do the same thing, which makes Robert much less likely to even start the adventure in the first place. Why sink resources into a conflict if there is so little chance of return?

However, if you are deadset on an Anglo-Irish lord, look up the Earl of Kildare. He was loyal to Edward II, but at least some of this came from Edward siding with him in a conflict with a rival lord in Kildare. If Edward swings the other way in his decision, it might push the rather noble Earl in another direction. However, I really doubt that he would, pardon ky French, kiss the Bruce's ass enough to make the later consider him a good candidate over a relative.
 
You make me think of the problem in a new light, the scenario I have in mind have Bruce realise two things:

1. To really have the Irish rise against England you need to propose something better then just go under Scotland instead, an ally instead of a defacto vassal.

2. The long term safety of Scotland demand that England be weakened, especially in Ireland and Wales, if not Scotland will always be the missing pieces of the British puzzle for London.

Is it ASB?
 
You make me think of the problem in a new light, the scenario I have in mind have Bruce realise two things:

1. To really have the Irish rise against England you need to propose something better then just go under Scotland instead, an ally instead of a defacto vassal.

2. The long term safety of Scotland demand that England be weakened, especially in Ireland and Wales, if not Scotland will always be the missing pieces of the British puzzle for London.

Is it ASB?

Not ASB, just difficult. I really think the best way to attain an independent Ireland during this time is under the Bruces. You have to look at it from his perspective as Norman-Scottish aristocracy where lineage dynasty are going to be more important than national identity, let alone a modern notion of nationalism.

To his mind, opening up a second front is great; and he would likely step in and support a rising if one already existed. However, if there is no popular uprising in Ireland, why start one up for a native leader, when you can do the same thing for a younger brother; the later option is ideally going to secure a more loyal neighbor and improves the strength of his dynasty.

Mind you; even if you set up a King in Ireland of the Anglo-Irish lords, said king is going to see himself as a member of the international Norman aristocracy more than as an 'Irishman' anyway, just as Edward I and II likely didn't see himself as particularly 'English'. Modern nationalism would have been a very foreign concept to people of the time.
 
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