An independent Brittany?

I did a quick (yet not very comprehensive) search and didn't find anything, so I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I was wondering how Brittany/Breizh could become independent and stay that way to today and how early this could happen.

Giving it some thought, I wondered if it could happen if the 100 Years War is won by the Plantangenets. Or would it be done later? Given that my general knowledge of French history is a bit limited, I thought I'd ask here. :eek:
 

yourworstnightmare

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Well, Britanny was semi independent for a long time. If France goes as OTL, complete independence would probably be impossible, but I think Brittany could have survived as an autonomous duchy under the French crown. Have Anne of Brittany be born a boy, or have her marry someone else.

In a Plantagenet empire were the same dynasty control both London and Paris, complete Breton independence would be even harder. But then again, the possibility for Brittany to survive as a semi- independent duchy is there.
 
I did find something after posting (bad forum etiquette on my part, posting before finding something), but it raised a few more questions. If Brittany fell into English hands, could the English use it as a major launching point for military excursions into France, or is that too risky for England? It would surely weaken France considerably, which would change many other things, such as North American colonization (France could focus more on African excursions I imagine.) This would also mean that Brittany could be further Anglicized, changing the culture a bit. Also curious what would transpire religiously, if Brittany converts to Anglicanism or stays Catholic once England splits from the pope.

Sorry, I happened to have a late night brainstorm and this was one of the results of it. :D
 

yourworstnightmare

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Well, the House of Plantagenet controlled other areas in France, and they were never that influenced by English culture. It was more French culture that influenced England, so I think the answer would be no. Also: If the Capets win the inevitable conflict with the Plantagenets Brittany would no longer be English, and if the Plantegenets win they'd get the crown of France, and they would be even more France centered.
 
Well, the House of Plantagenet controlled other areas in France, and they were never that influenced by English culture. It was more French culture that influenced England, so I think the answer would be no. Also: If the Capets win the inevitable conflict with the Plantagenets Brittany would no longer be English, and if the Plantegenets win they'd get the crown of France, and they would be even more France centered.

I didn't quite think of it like that, but you're right. The early English courts were heavily French, so that would make sense. Autonomy sounds like the way to go, at least until the rise of nationalism in Europe, then it would be interesting to see what unfolds.
 
Brennus

A possibility that might suit you're needs.

~1360 after the great victories at Crecy and Poiters there was some negotiations about a settlement of the ongoing war between 'England' and 'France'. One version was that Edward III would give up his claims to the French throne and the French would give up all claims to Aquitaine, recognising it as a separate state under Edward's rule.

At the same time there was a civil war in Brittany between two rival claimants to the duchy, unfortunately I forget the names. One was French speaking and supported by the French monarchy and the other Breton speaking and supported by the English.

OTL it came to nothing as Edward spent a couple of years celebrating his successes rather than pushing the military advantage. Also he got too greedy, thinking of demanding the return of Normandy and Anjou as well. Then the hostage French king John died and the French were able to put the money being raise for his ransom to rebuilding the French military. As a final irony the Breton claimant won the war in Brittany but ended up swearing fealty to the French king.

It could be that Edward is a bit more active, pressing the French more and getting a decision before John dies in captivity and also doesn't get so greedy. That the final term secure Aquitaine as a separte kingdom, along with a healthy payment for John's return plus Brittany gets recognised as a fief of Aquitaine rather than France with the Breton claimant being recognised by both sides as it's duke.

This leaves OTL France split and Brittany formally recognised as non-French and autonomous. From here depending on how things go it has a decent chance of maintaining at least a degree of independence. It's useful for the England-Aquitaine state in helping to control the bay of Biscay and entrance to the channel so they want to keep it on-side and out of French hands.

Steve
 
Brittany was heavily royalist during the Revolution, so you could perhaps work with that. If you somehow strengthened the royalists and weakened the republicans (perhaps through greater populist reforms before the revolution, or moving the revolution to a non-famine year) you could perhaps get a Libya-style civil war. This could end up with an independent Brittany.
 
Brittany was heavily royalist during the Revolution, so you could perhaps work with that. If you somehow strengthened the royalists and weakened the republicans (perhaps through greater populist reforms before the revolution, or moving the revolution to a non-famine year) you could perhaps get a Libya-style civil war. This could end up with an independent Brittany.

Socrates

I think the problem would be keeping it independent. If a Bourbon state was established there then it's rulers and probably the other conservative states in Europe would want that as a stepping stone to removing revolutionary France. Similarly the republicans would view it as a foot-hold for their enemies and source of sedition and opposition.

Hence sooner [almost certainly] or later there would be another round of war. If the Bourbons win and regain France Brittany might gain a few privileges but can't see them, having won and it having been a loyalist centre, hiving it off as an independent state.

Steve
 
It may also help to check out the brief thread I posted a couple of months back where John of Gaunt marries Joanna of Penthievre (here) instead of Charles of Blois nephew of Philippe IV of France.

While England still eventually lose Aquitaine/Guyenne they maintain Brittany as a foothold.
 
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