An ghlóir na Éireann: An Eirewank.

Hello everyone~
I've been lurking on these forums for a while now and I thought maybe I could start contributing. I've decided to start a TL where somehow Ireland gets to 'world power' level. I know the basics of the history but i'm far from an expert.

Two ideas I think could work are;

Replacing Britain - The cultural development of England happens in Ireland instead. I'm not too sure how that'd work, maybe for some reason Julius Caesar chooses to campaign in Hibernia/Ireland instead of Britannia?

In spite of Britain - Cultural development happens in Ireland faster than England, even if England does gain power. Not too sure how this would work either, unless maybe Brian Boru lives a while longer and manages to unify Ireland at an earlier time.

If there's any way to improve on those ideas, or there are better ones, i'm always up for help. :D
 
Hmm. If you want Hibernian development in addition to British cultural development, at the earliest I'd have Agricola get lost in his campaigning and ending up conquering Hibernia around 85 CE. This ATL might be of help...

I'll see if I can get a clear recap of the History of Pre-Norman Ireland just for you, alrighty?
 
@Grouchio: Thank you for the help!

Here's an idea - if it's in spite of English development, would an Irish - Scottish union be able to scare off the English from invasion?
 
@Grouchio: Thank you for the help!

Here's an idea - if it's in spite of English development, would an Irish - Scottish union be able to scare off the English from invasion?

A POD that late would probably not work Ri. Getting the Irish Kings to make a union (let alone with Scots) would be neigh impossible, and the POD Grouchio was suggesting would have so many butterflies there might not be an Anglo-Saxon invasion, and therefore no English.
 
A POD that late would probably not work Ri. Getting the Irish Kings to make a union (let alone with Scots) would be neigh impossible, and the POD Grouchio was suggesting would have so many butterflies there might not be an Anglo-Saxon invasion, and therefore no English.
After all, a stronger Roman Brittania could manage to fend off it's Saxon invaders. A different line of Roman policies could prevent the Saxons from obtaining foederati status and thusly barred from service in Brittania. Again, so many butterflies!
 

Deleted member 67076

What about a late-ish conquest of Ireland by the Romans? Early enough to give that area Romanization and infrastructure, but still late enough to allow things to go relatively similar in the 400s?

...Or we could just ignore butterflies. There is no reason why things HAVE to go different.
 
What about a late-ish conquest of Ireland by the Romans? Early enough to give that area Romanization and infrastructure, but still late enough to allow things to go relatively similar in the 400s?

...Or we could just ignore butterflies. There is no reason why things HAVE to go different.
That's ASB numbnuts. Certain circumstances always catalyze certain events.
 

Deleted member 67076

That's ASB numbnuts. Certain circumstances always catalyze certain events.

Calm yourself; no need for insults.

Yes, things will be different, but other events and long term trends can ensure things go roughly on the same path.

I mean, we could have Brittania be unstable while Ireland is fine, and refuses to send troops to help them for a variety of reasons.
 
If you want an Ireland wank, play Crusader Kings 2. Ireland is great for beginners because you can start as a small nation conquering other petty kingdoms to unify the island without too much interference from Scotland or England at first. :D

It's a lot more difficult with a more realistic history, especially developing a sense of unity between the factions on the island.
 
^^ That's if Hibernia isn't conquered by the Romans that is. So that should be the most plausible PoD before the Viking invasions.
 
If Agricola conquering Ireland is the best (and maybe only) POD, then it'll have to do! Thank you guys for the help! :p
 
What about an Alfred the Great failure and a Great Heathen Army victory. At least, give Guthrum a pyrrhic victory, which allows the Danes to establish a stronger Danelaw that cuts diagonally across Britain. This separates the surviving English kingdoms of Wessex and Northumberland and pits them against their Brythonic neighbours in Wales and Strathclyde. A stronger Scandiwegian kingdom across the Irish Sea would do wonders for the wealth and influence of Dublin, opening up their markets even further for leather and slaves going out, and the world coming in. Meanwhile a Balkanised Britain limits the growth of strong martial and economic states. Keeping Britain and England weak will only help you if there is a reason for that power to then percolate across to Dublin through economic, dynastic and cultural means. A successful Danelaw could do that.

Throw in a resurgence of the Celtic church and it's monastic tradition, an evangelical Church of Saint Patrick to convert the Vikings good and proper, and you're on your way. Imagine it - a northern European papacy based in Downpatrick! [Though perhaps more than a bit ASB.]
 
What about an Alfred the Great failure and a Great Heathen Army victory. At least, give Guthrum a pyrrhic victory, which allows the Danes to establish a stronger Danelaw that cuts diagonally across Britain. This separates the surviving English kingdoms of Wessex and Northumberland and pits them against their Brythonic neighbours in Wales and Strathclyde. A stronger Scandiwegian kingdom across the Irish Sea would do wonders for the wealth and influence of Dublin, opening up their markets even further for leather and slaves going out, and the world coming in. Meanwhile a Balkanised Britain limits the growth of strong martial and economic states. Keeping Britain and England weak will only help you if there is a reason for that power to then percolate across to Dublin through economic, dynastic and cultural means. A successful Danelaw could do that.

Throw in a resurgence of the Celtic church and it's monastic tradition, an evangelical Church of Saint Patrick to convert the Vikings good and proper, and you're on your way. Imagine it - a northern European papacy based in Downpatrick! [Though perhaps more than a bit ASB.]

The last part is perhaps a stretch, but there certainly is a lot of potential there. The only big problem I see is the Vikings themselves. They may keep the Anglo kings divided, but they may take up enough of the power vacuum themselves to be an even greater threat down the line. Even if they did convert the Vikings (which is possible), they would more than likely dominated by norse culture in the long run.
 
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