An Examination of Extra-Universal Systems of Government

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Ephraim Ben Raphael, May 19, 2011.

  1. frustrated progressive Insert Witticism Here

    Jun 16, 2013
    Traffic,Heat,Crime,Poverty, Still Paradise (LA)
    I would very much enjoy reading.
  2. Ephraim Ben Raphael Super Writer Extraordinaire

    Oct 5, 2009
    Somewhere in the Khazar Empire
    There's a similar anti-German ideology as I recall, composed of Germans who want Germany to be destroyed and annexed by its neighbors.
  3. Zurirach Adankar Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2015
    It seems, as if the Japanese equivalent to the German "Anti-German" movement are far more fringe. I'm not surprised, that a radical anti-nationalist left emerges in countries after horrible fascist regimes. I'm rather surprised, that they developed in really bizarre directions in Japan.

    Anti-German ideology developed due to the realization, that your parents or grandparents participated in the Holocaust and fought for the most horrible fascist regime which ever existed. Germany failed for a long time to reflect and realize their recent past after World War 2. It is a logic conclusion of this perspective to reject nationalism, especially your own nationalism.

    Anti-German ideology combines anti-capitalism with anti-nationalism. They often combine Antifa-Symbolism with the Star of David.
    (For example they use Flyer depicting the Antifa Flag next to the Flag of Israel with the Slogan "Antifa means Solidarity with Israel")

    The German Anti-Germans managed to influence various discourses among the German left, and left a significant impact. While most German leftists are not Anti-Germans, they adopted some of their ideas in a more moderate form. "Nie wieder Deutschland!" (Germany, never again !) is a common slogan among the German left. At every major football world cup, there is a sport among various leftists to collect and destroy as many German flags as possible to combat nationalism. Still it is unclear, what they want to build after abandoning the German national identity.

    Many differences between the German and the Anglosphere left can be explained by "Anti-German" influences. For example, the German left is far more concerned about Antisemitism than the Anglosphere left. Similar the German left has partially different views on the Middle East.
    While their are parts of the American or British left, which criticize imperialism or racism, I doubt that they would use the slogans "Down with the USA" or "Never Britain again!"

    Anti-Germans and large parts of the German left believe that Antisemitism isn't just a problem of the right and extreme right, but a structural problem, and that leftists need to be aware about leftist antisemitism. Anti-Germans usually support a harsh foreign policy against Iran.
    Anti-Germans where highly skeptical about the reunification of Germany, since they feared a new German nationalism after reunification.

    An important intellectual of the Anti-Germans was Eike Geisel ( ). They often use the Frankfurt School in their rhetoric and argumentation.

    Anti-Germans are clearly leftists who want to overcome capitalism and oppression. They want an emancipated society.
    But there is also a more bizarre fringe fraction of the Anti-German left which entirely abandons the criticism of capitalism and is highly skeptical about refugees. This fraction moved far to the right.

    There are today some disagreements between more intersectional leftists, traditonal leftists and anti-german leftists. Still, I guess, that it is possible, to combine intersectionality with a more moderate form of the arguments of the Anti-Germans.

    There was no point in history where Anti-Germans emerged as a major political force. They are more influential among intellectuals and in university cities. They could influence some positions of other political movements, but an Anti-German dominated government is impossible with a plausible POD.

    Maybe I should write a short entry about an Anti-German German government.
    ( Central-European Administration, Capital Bonn, Anthem: NONE, Flag:–1949).svg , planned economy with some council communism, foreign policy: good relationship with the US and Israel, hostile to everything fascist, hostile to other communist regimes)
  4. Earthallias Who TF keeps liking but not replying?

    Jun 30, 2017
    So that's who the terrorists from magical girl spec ops asuka were, since they too were the "East Asia Front". The subsequent dismemberment was darkly hilarious
  5. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    Involved in Africa
    This is my cover of the world of the United Nations Interim Administration in Western Sahara, @King of the Uzbeks' EEUSG entry. Many thanks to him for helping me with this!

    The PoD is an expansionist dictatorship coming to power in Mauretania in 1985. There are some butterfly effects on the rest of the world. The USSR falls “on schedule,” although with some differences: Ceceascau’s regime Romania manages to remain in place, Belarus never secedes and the attempted Soviet Army coup was successful for a moment before falling apart. Yugoslavia’s fall is more violent and leads to more killings, culminating in an invasion of the country by NATO. Russia’s government is even more chaotic in the 1990s, suffering horrendous losses in the Caucasus before falling under the control of Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

    The world has far more military interventions, and until recently, politics was far more favorable to the idea of “wars for peace.” Iraq was invaded in the early 1990s, as a response to Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait. This war was very popular, and America even got the support of the dying Soviet Union. This war set a precedent of American interventionism as a means of preserving peace and unity in the new, post-Cold War world.

    The invasion of Iran in 2009 was around the time when American interventionism became very unpopular in the United States. The invasion was ostensibly launched in response to a wave of Islamic terrorist attacks attributed to pro-Iranian Palestinian groups, who claimed to be responding to continued American support of Israel. These included the hijackings and deliberate crashing of commercial airliners. The Iranians put up a very good fight conventionally, and their military and other armed regime personnel melted into the mountains after the invasion. While the current American-backed regime is hailed for its achievements in human rights, it is also seen as illegitimate and has resorted to some draconian measures which remind the people of the Shah.

    North Korea’s nuclear test marked the beginning of the end of the regime. Extreme sanctions led to a famine even worse than what followed the fall of the Soviet Union, leading to the Kims attempting something extremely risky: bombarding rural regions outside Seoul in an effort to hold the city hostage. The gambit backfired, leading to South Korean aerial attacks against North Korean artillery, leading to a war which ended with a nuclear device being detonated in the outskirts of Seoul and the nuclear bombing of Pyongyang. North Korea is still under military occupation and will take many years before the country can be integrated into the RoK.

    Venezuela has been under American occupation since 2009, the most recent of America's foreign interventions and the one closest to home. The war is the most controversial, as while the Americans believed that Chavez was a dictator and would inevitably lead his country into economic destitution and starvation, the CIA backed a coup against Chavez, at the time a popular, democratically-elected leader. Although there is a new, elected government, it has little legitimacy and Chavez is still leading an opposition movement which has retreated from the cities and is continuing a long war.

    All of this American interventionism has led to fractures within the Western bloc. Many continental European powers, particularly Germany and France, dislike all of this interventionism and have refused to go along with American invasions unless there is support by international institutions like the UN. This has led to more distrust between the American and continental European governments, although both are still allies.

    More importantly, interventionism on the part of America has led to the East consolidating. Russia and China have come to see America as a mutual threat, and both are working closer together and building a coalition of non-Western states and rising economies to counter American power. Even India and Brazil, neither of whom historically shared the government or interests of Russia and China together, have joined in.

    Libya is a stable, regional power, and one of the richest countries in Africa. It is also far more interventionist, positioning itself as an alternative to Western imperialism and the growing neo-colonialism of the East. Gaddafi has bold visions of a united Africa under Libyan leadership.

    Africa itself has been more violent, with outside forces moving in to intervene. The Congo War has become an African War, as more and more countries pick sides and involve themselves in the interminable conflict in the Congo. This has also led to more conflicts outside of the Congo, with conflicts spilling over borders and wars on the other side of the continent flaring up because of what happened in the Congo.

  6. Earthallias Who TF keeps liking but not replying?

    Jun 30, 2017
    So do most modern shooters take place in these occupied zones? Maybe invading the nations supporting instability?
  7. coldblood11 His Royal Highness

    Jul 20, 2014
    Cornucopia Alpha, the Global Factory System
    What's Romania like? Is it the TTL analogue of North Korea?
  8. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red Gone Fishin'

    Jun 23, 2015
    Qo'noS, homeworld of the Klingon species
    Ooh, I like that one. Especially the theme of American hubris biting us in the behind.
  9. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    Not quite. It's nutty but it doesn't have nuclear weapons (or so the world generally believes, there are theories they got their hands on Soviet weapons in the chaos of the early 90s) and it's nowhere near as repressive.
    Gokbay and Whiteshore like this.
  10. King of the Uzbeks Charles Curtis is my Baby Daddy

    May 28, 2013
    Not-Tashkent (sadly)
    An EBR approved Nation.

    The State of Italy​

    As I exit the train station in Rome I am suddenly approached by two large men in dark suits and sunglasses. I instantly ponder whether I made a mistake, perhaps the State of Italy is not as open as I had been led to believe.

    Instead of being hauled off to a black site, I was handed a clipboard, a pen and told to fill out the attached form. I informed the men that I wasn’t Italian. My clipboard was exchanged for another one, with a new form to fill out. I answered the questions to the best of my ability. How would I rate the service on the train? (5 out of 10) Did I find the forign policy of the State of Italy too aggressive? (No) Did I think that giving the station a corporate sponsor would damper my enjoyment? (Yes, its not a sports stadium). A few more questions and I was done, the men thanked me for my time then ran off to find someone else to survey. If my later research was correct the men were likely clerks for the South Roman Transport Committee, looking for feedback regarding Resolution 34-9P regarding the refurbishment of local infrastructure.

    Such is the way of the land in the world’s oldest Consuleist State.

    After the fires of revolution burned Europe in 1789 and Napoleon rode roughshod over the empires old, the continent settled into a general reactionary morass. A generation now arose that sought out new ideologies to oppose the new order. Liberalism was the order of the day, but other ideas flowed underneath it. Socialism, Anarchism, and later Proletariatism would emerge, but it was Consuleism that would lead to the State of Italy.

    Consuleism was originally the work of a Frenchman, Jean-Claude DePau. DePau was a wealthy lawyer, originally based in Lyon but later moving to Paris. DePau had originally been a revolutionary democratic rebublican, being a great follower of Pierre Brissot as a teenager. However over the course of the revolution he came to be disillusioned with mass and mob politics, which had seen Brissot executed. But, despite the accusations of many leftists, it did not make DePau a reactionary. He approved of efforts to curb the excesses of the masses, but despised the Concert of Europe forged by the conservative powers. From this disillusionment was born Consuleism.

    The basic tenant of Consuleism is that the people should guide the nations direction, even determine policy at times, but not select the leaders. Instead a “faceless mass” of bureaucracy should actually implement and enforce the laws. DePau wrote about his proposed mode of government in several works, his most famous being “On The Government Of Man”, published in 1831. As Consuleism rose, so did Italy, the nation uniting under a Republican model in 1849 the exception of Venitia, which remained under Austrian domination. The Pope fled to Porto to avoid being ripped apart by a nationalist mob, and remains there to this day.

    For obvious reasons Consuleism had trouble garnering the sort of revolutionary zeal that other ideologies could produce, but it time it gained an intellectual base in various European countries. The system would also find support amongst rural populations, who enjoyed the popular input while also appreciating that the system prevented any sort of urban riff raff from destroying traditional values. Consuleist groups would be elected to legislatures in France, Italy and Spain before the outbreak of the Great War. France and Prussia, under nationalist governments, used the mob burning of the French Consulate in Warsaw as an excuse to launch an attack on Russia, Austria, and the Ottomans. In 1912, a year after the start of the war Italy was enticed to join the Franco-Prussian Alliance with promises of land gained at the expense of Austria. The promised easy victory was soon proved a lie, the war devolving into the brutal trench warfare too many universes have faced. It would be British entrance into the war for the Eastern Alliance that would tip the scales, although it was too late for Vienna which collapsed into Proletariatist revolution. Italy was able to retake Venice but was faced with internal revolution as well as British dominance at sea. In 1919 mobs formed menacingly in Rome and Turin and Naples, lingering ominously outside government buildings. General Antonio Mussolini, hero of the Battle of Mantua, told the incumbent President that the war needed to end or the country would fall in a violent manner. The President insisted on marching on and Mussolini called in his troops.

    Seeking some political cloaking for what he assumed would be a mere junta Mussolini invited the Consuleists into his government, which he termed the Italian State. He placed Consuleist trappings on the new state, a powerful bureaucracy, no elections but lots of referenda, and a strong focus of efficiency. However Mussolini, officially now only the head of the Committee on Military Affairs, was no politician. He alienated many lower ranking officers, and was soon out played by the ideological Consuleists, unofficially led by Ricardo Russo a bookish tax lawyer with a talent for management.

    The 1920s were a time of experimentation for the Italian State, renamed to the State of Italy in a 1924 referendum. Overarching committees were formed and abolished and local governments were eroded by local administrative councils imposed from Rome. The State was in line with popular sentiment however. Catholic Church land was restored where reasonable and the Pope recognized the new state, although he remained in Porto. As the modern study of statistics emerged opinion polling was implemented in place of costly votes for all but the most important of topics. In 1931 civil war in Yugoslavia led to the formation of the Northern Yugoslav Republic, another Consuleist state. As the stillerkrieg set in the State of Italy found itself generally on the side of the capitalists, although it would never formally join any bloc. After much deliberation and international pressure Italy would decolonize in the 1980s, far later then any other country, leaving behind several Consuleist states in Africa.

    I ask my cab driver what he thinks about the government of his country.

    “They ask too many questions!” He shouts. “I don’t care what regulations they put on tomatoes! And then they start asking about philosophy! Do they think I’m an egghead from Bolonga?”

    It seems that I’ve arrived at Census time. The Italian census is one part referendum, one part opinion poll and one part standardized test. Every citizen must complete one. Still, the cabbie overall seems to enjoy his country’s government.

    “I don’t have to listen to politicians at least.” He grumbles.

    My first interview is at a cafe near Saint Peter’s Basilica, which is now the “Symbolic Heart” of the State of Italy. My subject is instantly recognizable. Tall and thin with olive skin and dark hair, Giorga D'Allessandro is a former model and looks the part. She is also the President of the Council of State, commonly called just the President.

    I ask her how she got the position.

    “Non-consuleist countries have a difficult time getting the whole ‘no elected leaders’ thing. I am here to look pretty in the photo shoots, while the diplomats work behind the scenes.” She said bluntly.

    I wonder if that makes her just a prop for others. She laughs.

    “That is true of other models is it not? Am I that different then the Queen of Britain in this regard?

    I ask how the government even goes about selecting the President.

    “In the census a few years ago a question was asked about the qualities the Italian people want in a leader, then foreign diplomats were surveyed about what their elected leaders would select. With that information in hand the Committee of State, which handles all symbolic aspects of the state, began the search. I was selected because I matched the descriptions given, and I knew enough about policy to engage others without knowing enough to endanger any ongoing efforts. Of course, my appointment was subject to approval by the Committee of Forign Affairs and the Oversight Committee.” She says, in a breathtaking display of convoluted bureaucracy.

    I ask what is in store for her after her “term” is up.

    “Perhaps I’ll return to the private sector, or possibly serve on the Committee for Sport, I like to think I’ve helped the Olympics bid along quite a bit.”

    Listing all of the interlocking Committees that make up the State of Italy would take far to long, but one of the most important in the Placement Committee, which determines what Committee a certain proposed law or resolution in recommended to initially, although all laws must be approved by all relevant committees. It used to be far more powerful, but the other Committees thought it too much so and in the 80s its power was severely curtailed. Nowadays most up and coming bureaucrats looks for the Commerce and Labor Committees and their adjacent subcommittees as the places to gain the sort of shadowy influence that dominates the State of Italy. Hugo Lombardo is, according to “Romeologists” who study the Byzantine world of Italy, the most powerful man in Italy at the moment, a fact that he strenuously denies. He started his career on the Agricultural Labor Relations Board of Sardinia, but now sits on the overarching Labor Committee.

    “I do my duty, wherever that is.” He says. I ask if his power is exaggerated.

    “I will not deny that I have a certain pull on matters of Labor, but to say I rule Italy is a gross exaggeration. I am sure Mrs. Cassini on the Commerce Committee who just defeated one of my proposals would dispute the idea that I am a puppet master.”

    Moving on from the subject of power I ask about his thoughts on forign policy. I ponder why a Consuleist Alliance never emerged.

    "Naturally, that is not my department, so I am free to share my opinion. The fact of the matter is that many Consuleist states are simply cover for dictatorships. And even those that respect the will of the people have different methods and pulls from their people."

    This is true. North Yugoslavia is a deeply conservative state, with the central bureaucracy limiting popular input as much as is practicable. On the other hand Switzerland is more or less a direct democracy. Italy is somewhere in the middle. The government does follow the general sentiments of the population, but has been known to engage in tricky wording and mental gymnastics with regards to specific issues. And, after the 2001 Referendum rejected tax reform, the State has been extremely reluctant in putting anything to an open vote.

    As I bid him farewell I mention that the last Olympics I attended were a propaganda show. Lombardo shakes his head.

    "Rome will see nothing like that. Our polling has shown that the people are satisfied with the government, but are disfavorable to jingoism at the moment."

  11. traveller76 Member

    Jul 29, 2006
    Fort Worth, TX
    This was fun and unique.
  12. Yves Santos New Member

    Dec 10, 2016
    all are very good timelines
  13. krinsbez Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2009
  14. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    Another one for the dysfunction junction: a truly bipartisan republic. Every government office is staffed by appointees from the two dominant parties (hopefully someone would come up with something more interesting than Democrats and Republicans in the US, because we have way too many Americas here), the legislature is split evenly between the two by design, and there are even two chief executives, each with veto power over the other. The idea is for the two factions to always find common ground and cooperate, and ensuring both parties have equal power “should” mean that they won’t jockey for it.
  15. KolyenuKS not a farmer I think

    Nov 28, 2018
    what about like a more chaotic fall of the ussr (that leads to the fall of the usa), that leads to an united Germany but with Communists in the east and Liberals in the west uniting into 1 government but split in two?
    President Eternal likes this.
  16. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    That could work. Reminds me of a commission I did for @Mumby.
    Mumby likes this.
  17. Betelgeuse Well-Known Member

    May 11, 2014
    Hermes Conrad has found a place to call home.
  18. halfcoop Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2016
    Hmm their a failed revival of the Roman Republic somewhere in here... maybe a colony in America/Africa that decided to experiment.
    President Eternal likes this.
  19. rvbomally Russian Hacker

    Dec 13, 2008
    He’d be more at home in that Americanized Japan entry I wrote a while back.

    One idea I had was a post-Thermidor French Republic that went even further in its emulation of the Roman Republic. It would also fit since the compromise between the “left” and “right” would be one that ostensibly preserves the Revolution while preventing politicians from guillotining one another. And perhaps like old Poland, France becomes torn politically between the two factions under foreign dominance; Russia backing the conservatives and Britain backing the liberals?
    DrWalpurgis, Deltax10 and halfcoop like this.
  20. halfcoop Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2016
    And in the spirit of the Directory the only thing they agree on is uniting to stop the monarchist and jacobins. (Or whatever the two would evolve to)