Post-nuclear, but it somehow does not appear to be post-apocalyptic.
Good? to know.This also won’t be the last post-apocalyptic world.
An Examination of Extra-Universal Systems of Government
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
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Are there more developed and stable nations in the Jefferson's TL? While the US of Chico seems to have a chance to climb to a late xix or early xx century society (and maybe later further progress), Jefferson's long term prospects are bleak, not only for the population but for the survival of that state, who is walking toward the middle ages.
Can someone remind me of what is the RIAM?
Can someone remind me of what is the RIAM?
I just realized that knowledge of post-apocalyptic timelines implies the Nutshell has a prime directive style policy of keeping terrible worlds terrible. Maybe because interventionism throughout the multiverse taxes resources and would piss off some very powerful parties. Bumping off some Mad Max warlord is one thing, but the leaders of a superpower?
Not necessarily. Maybe, after doing a good study of the world, it then intervenes. Or, maybe the Nutshell doesn't have the resources to intervene itself (which is very plausible given how large the multiverse is), so it publishes these reports to open the door to other people intervening?
Sometimes, after careful study, the removal of a few warlords here and there within a TL, might be enough to propel a TL like this to a gradual recovery (with a speed depending on the extent of the damages).
The Nutshell doesn't have policies, its not a government. Its an interdimensional meeting point for various different timelines and thats about it. There is a sort of United Nations-esque organization, buts its about as powerful as its real world counterpart if I remember correctly. If a group of people decide to go and mess with that universe - making it better, worse or keeping it largely the same - then there wouldn't be much done to stop them. The only thing Nutshell itself would ever do is activate its robots to break rule-breakers - and their rules are stuff like 'Don't use nukes inside Nutshell' not 'Don't use Nutshell to conquer other universes.'
This was something I wrote originally foe EEUSG, decided against posting it because I had another idea for adding to the socialism and communism chapter, then decided to add it again when I realized we're not sticking to any number limit to entries per chapter. Enjoy!
I was accompanied by a guide - in truth, a government minder. Ms. Tabitha Williams was a young Youth Cadet in the Southron Workers’ Party, and her job was to keep “foreigners like you from causing any trouble.”
Ms. Williams struck me as an astonishing cold individual. Many of my attempts at small talk led to concise answers, and she was clearly not enjoying any of my conversation topics. She answered a question about her job by handing me a business card. Any questions about the city or politics was deflected, and she told me to ask her superiors.
It seems that Southern hospitality was one of the casualties of the war. A shame, since I wanted to get the perspective of a lower-ranking party member.
We approached the entrance to the Jackson Building, named after the hero of the War of 1812. I was surprised to see the Southerners lauding pre-revolutionary heroes, particularly a slave owner. I asked Ms. Williams about this seeming discrepancy.
“General Jackson was an enemy of the bankers, and a man of the people. Whatever other flaws he may have had are just a reflection of pre-revolutionary regressive values. None of us can choose the time we are born in.”
Given Ms. Williams’ rote, dispassionate delivery, I suspected this was not the first time she has had to answer the question. Or the fifth.
Even though I was accompanied by a government minder, in a conspicuous grey blouse with a Bloody Banner lapel pin, the guards looked at me with suspicion. On the plus side, I was waved through the security checkpoint.
“Don’t stare at the guards,” Ms. Williams told me, without even turning to look at me. Duly noted.
I was escorted down the unimpressive hallways of the twelfth floor of the Jackson Building. Ms.
Williams suddenly stopped, knocked on the door beside her, and it opened. Ms. Williams gestured for me to take a seat in the office. Waiting for me inside, behind his desk, was my contact: Comrade Luke Prejean, Vice Secretary of the Louisiana Chapter of the Southron Workers’ Party. I took my seat, and Ms. Williams shut the door behind me. She remained outside.
“Don’t worry about her, she’s there to ensure nobody’s listening in on what we have to say,” Comrade Prejean told me. His Southern accent was thick, and I had trouble understanding him.
“At least, nobody I don’t know ‘bout,” he added with a chuckle.
I was surprised by the humble décor in the office: a few posters, mostly propaganda but with a few of local music festivals and foreign films, on the walls, and family photos on his desk. No trophies, medal cases, not even a nameplate.
“I ain’t nobody, just a public servant,” Comrade Prejean told me. “Anyhow, it pays to be humble. If some crazed gunman runs in here, he won’t know who’s the high value target.”
I wanted to ask why that was such a concern, but I dropped the topic and went straight to my questions. I started with the seeming contradiction of a communist state in southeastern North America, one of the most conservative and religious regions of the continent.
"You've got to be a damn fool to put up with the sort of shit we had to deal with before the Third American Revolution," Comrade Prejean replied. "You're right, we like the way we do things down here, and not much of that has changed, and we don't think there's any contradiction between our socialist principles and our Christian ones. Open up a Bible sometime. Jesus was a man of the people, he fed the multitudes, he spoke out against the corruption of the Pharisees. Shit, I don't think you can be a good Christian and not be a socialist."
That didn't answer my question: how did the South go red?
"Damn near every Southerner was as poor as the dirt he worked, except for the families who owned the plantations, the mills, and every politician in the country. And it would have stayed that way forever, if the Yankees didn't give us a good kick in the ass."
The Southron Popular Republic began life as the southern half of the United States of America, which itself began as a group of thirteen British colonies on the Atlantic coast of North America. The enslavement of Africans, a practice most common in the agrarian South, eventually led to the division of the United States in 1863. The northern states, which opposed slavery, remained loyal to the American government, while the southern states became the Confederate States of America. The Confederate States would go on to lose a major war against the United States in the early 20th century, resulting in the almost-total destruction of the Confederate economy and their military. The disaffected poor of Confederate society, inspired by the successes of socialist revolutionaries in Eastern Europe and Asia, rose up against the weakened Confederate government, forming the Southron Popular Republic.
"We did a lot of good back then. Still do, of course, but back then there was a lot of bad to undo, so it looks greater by comparison. We divvied up the large properties of the big families, and gave them to cooperatives owned and operated by the men who worked them. Each worker has a share in the cooperative, so if the cooperative does well, he does well. We didn't do away with competition, of course, 'cause Southron know-how and ingenuity works with competition. We wanted the cooperatives to compete with each other, we just broke up the big oligopolies so there would be competition and every man benefits, not just the rich old families."
Didn't this go against the fundamentals of Marxism?
"Marx got a lot of things right, particularly about how capitalism exploits the masses. But he ain't no prophet. We Southrons have our own way of doing things."
Speaking of the "Southron way of doing things," I asked what I knew would be the touchiest subject: race relations.
"Race is a capitalist social construct manufactured by the bourgeois classes to divide the proletariat," Comrade Prejean began. "After the Revolution, we threw away all of the racial laws, let all men live as brothers. The Southron government makes no racial distinctions whatsoever, hurting nor harming any man for irrelevant circumstances not of his choosing.
But wasn't this holding the South back from true equality? I made the point that the average Southron black was still poorer than the average Southron white. Why wouldn't the government recognize this discrepancy and fix it?
"We were all oppressed by the capitalists, perhaps some in greater measure than others, but we were all oppressed. Now, we are all liberated, and we will not allow the capitalist construct of race to get in the way of our progress. The Party has many black people in it, but they do not represent black people. They represent all people, same as our white Party members."
"Race exists to divide us," Comrade Prejean continued. "That's how the slavers did it, and the capitalists after them. They're still doing it! Look at the propaganda that comes out of the capitalist North. They say we're racists, not because they ain't racists. Hell, look at their racial statistics if you don't believe me. They say that shit because they want to divide our people against themselves, and make us more vulnerable to a capitalist takeover. It's slimy shit, and you're too smart to fall for it."
Moving on, I asked Comrade Prejean about the South's political system. Did the system tolerate dissent? How could people redress their grievances?
"First of all, we respect the rights of all men. We don't go around shooting people we don't like, especially because down here, they're liable to shoot back. Freedom of speech is very important to us. It's part of our Western tradition, and we'd never censor dissent. How would we look if we shut up everyone who argued against us? We'd look like people without an argument. Anyone is free to speak as he pleases, so long as he doesn't make threats or leaks state secrets or anything of that sort. As for office, the Party and the government are intertwined. I know a lot of foreigners are squeamish about that, but all Party members are elected. Those in lower Party offices are elected by their local constituencies, those in state Party offices by state officials, and those in national Party offices by the entire nation. I'm elected by the people of Louisiana, for example."
I then asked about the South's isolationist policies, particularly its draconian immigration and trade policies. Why had the South closed itself off from the outside world? As a man living in New Orleans, I made the point that his local Party would benefit from increased international trade.
"Trade is beneficial at some times, and we ain't so stupid and pig-headed that we won't trade when it does us good. But if we're getting ripped off, and just lining some foreign capitalist's pockets? No thanks, that's not doing us any good. As for immigration, we have to look after our people first. We have nothing against the proletariat of other nations. Hell, we feel for them, and we support their struggle to liberate themselves from the capitalist yoke, same as the Russians. But bringing them here by the boatload doesn't help us, and it doesn't help them. The Yankees import millions of people from Asia and Africa, but who does it help? The immigrants, who become wage slaves to the capitalist multinationals? The Yankee workers, who now have to compete with foreign labor? Or the capitalist, who's just having a great day because he's making more profits for himself? We want to help the poor of the entire world, and the best way we can do that is by fighting capitalism abroad."
Building on that point, I asked about the Southrons' perpetually hostile relationship with its neighbors. I even dared to accuse the Southron Popular Republic of directly funding communist militants in civil wars across the world. Comrade Prejean surprised me with his frankness.
"Yeah, we materially supply the soldiers of the revolution, and we're damn proud of it. When the Third Revolution happened, we didn't just fight the Confederate Army. We fought the state militias, foreign "volunteers," and the Mexican and Yankee invaders. And we licked every single one of them. We'd be betraying our proletarian brothers abroad if we didn't put our martial skills to good use elsewhere. I'd be the first to admit that we'd probably lose a second round against the Yankees, but that's why we take the fight to Africa, to Asia, and to Latin America. We've had a lot of victories in the Latin world, and they're very grateful for it."
Southron Popular Republic
I have been to the French Quarter in many timelines, but I have never seen one so modern. It is a double-edged sword - while the city does well to showcase the Southron Popular Republic’s success, much of the city’s historical Old World charm has been lost. The French Quarter looked like the downtown of any other modern city; a Houston or a Los Angeles. Wide roads were flanked by towering parking complexes and office buildings. The city was heavily damaged during the Third American Revolution, so I suppose it couldn’t be helped. The brutalist government office my taxi has dropped me off by was, evidently, built atop the ruins of a Catholic cathedral. The building seemed more in place in the Atlanta Capital District, but as I was informed before my visit, the capital is off-limits to foreigners. I was disappointed by this news, and settled for New Orleans. Being the second largest city
I was accompanied by a guide - in truth, a government minder. Ms. Tabitha Williams was a young Youth Cadet in the Southron Workers’ Party, and her job was to keep “foreigners like you from causing any trouble.”
Ms. Williams struck me as an astonishing cold individual. Many of my attempts at small talk led to concise answers, and she was clearly not enjoying any of my conversation topics. She answered a question about her job by handing me a business card. Any questions about the city or politics was deflected, and she told me to ask her superiors.
It seems that Southern hospitality was one of the casualties of the war. A shame, since I wanted to get the perspective of a lower-ranking party member.
We approached the entrance to the Jackson Building, named after the hero of the War of 1812. I was surprised to see the Southerners lauding pre-revolutionary heroes, particularly a slave owner. I asked Ms. Williams about this seeming discrepancy.
“General Jackson was an enemy of the bankers, and a man of the people. Whatever other flaws he may have had are just a reflection of pre-revolutionary regressive values. None of us can choose the time we are born in.”
Given Ms. Williams’ rote, dispassionate delivery, I suspected this was not the first time she has had to answer the question. Or the fifth.
Even though I was accompanied by a government minder, in a conspicuous grey blouse with a Bloody Banner lapel pin, the guards looked at me with suspicion. On the plus side, I was waved through the security checkpoint.
“Don’t stare at the guards,” Ms. Williams told me, without even turning to look at me. Duly noted.
I was escorted down the unimpressive hallways of the twelfth floor of the Jackson Building. Ms.
Williams suddenly stopped, knocked on the door beside her, and it opened. Ms. Williams gestured for me to take a seat in the office. Waiting for me inside, behind his desk, was my contact: Comrade Luke Prejean, Vice Secretary of the Louisiana Chapter of the Southron Workers’ Party. I took my seat, and Ms. Williams shut the door behind me. She remained outside.
“Don’t worry about her, she’s there to ensure nobody’s listening in on what we have to say,” Comrade Prejean told me. His Southern accent was thick, and I had trouble understanding him.
“At least, nobody I don’t know ‘bout,” he added with a chuckle.
I was surprised by the humble décor in the office: a few posters, mostly propaganda but with a few of local music festivals and foreign films, on the walls, and family photos on his desk. No trophies, medal cases, not even a nameplate.
“I ain’t nobody, just a public servant,” Comrade Prejean told me. “Anyhow, it pays to be humble. If some crazed gunman runs in here, he won’t know who’s the high value target.”
I wanted to ask why that was such a concern, but I dropped the topic and went straight to my questions. I started with the seeming contradiction of a communist state in southeastern North America, one of the most conservative and religious regions of the continent.
"You've got to be a damn fool to put up with the sort of shit we had to deal with before the Third American Revolution," Comrade Prejean replied. "You're right, we like the way we do things down here, and not much of that has changed, and we don't think there's any contradiction between our socialist principles and our Christian ones. Open up a Bible sometime. Jesus was a man of the people, he fed the multitudes, he spoke out against the corruption of the Pharisees. Shit, I don't think you can be a good Christian and not be a socialist."
That didn't answer my question: how did the South go red?
"Damn near every Southerner was as poor as the dirt he worked, except for the families who owned the plantations, the mills, and every politician in the country. And it would have stayed that way forever, if the Yankees didn't give us a good kick in the ass."
The Southron Popular Republic began life as the southern half of the United States of America, which itself began as a group of thirteen British colonies on the Atlantic coast of North America. The enslavement of Africans, a practice most common in the agrarian South, eventually led to the division of the United States in 1863. The northern states, which opposed slavery, remained loyal to the American government, while the southern states became the Confederate States of America. The Confederate States would go on to lose a major war against the United States in the early 20th century, resulting in the almost-total destruction of the Confederate economy and their military. The disaffected poor of Confederate society, inspired by the successes of socialist revolutionaries in Eastern Europe and Asia, rose up against the weakened Confederate government, forming the Southron Popular Republic.
"We did a lot of good back then. Still do, of course, but back then there was a lot of bad to undo, so it looks greater by comparison. We divvied up the large properties of the big families, and gave them to cooperatives owned and operated by the men who worked them. Each worker has a share in the cooperative, so if the cooperative does well, he does well. We didn't do away with competition, of course, 'cause Southron know-how and ingenuity works with competition. We wanted the cooperatives to compete with each other, we just broke up the big oligopolies so there would be competition and every man benefits, not just the rich old families."
Didn't this go against the fundamentals of Marxism?
"Marx got a lot of things right, particularly about how capitalism exploits the masses. But he ain't no prophet. We Southrons have our own way of doing things."
Speaking of the "Southron way of doing things," I asked what I knew would be the touchiest subject: race relations.
"Race is a capitalist social construct manufactured by the bourgeois classes to divide the proletariat," Comrade Prejean began. "After the Revolution, we threw away all of the racial laws, let all men live as brothers. The Southron government makes no racial distinctions whatsoever, hurting nor harming any man for irrelevant circumstances not of his choosing.
But wasn't this holding the South back from true equality? I made the point that the average Southron black was still poorer than the average Southron white. Why wouldn't the government recognize this discrepancy and fix it?
"We were all oppressed by the capitalists, perhaps some in greater measure than others, but we were all oppressed. Now, we are all liberated, and we will not allow the capitalist construct of race to get in the way of our progress. The Party has many black people in it, but they do not represent black people. They represent all people, same as our white Party members."
"Race exists to divide us," Comrade Prejean continued. "That's how the slavers did it, and the capitalists after them. They're still doing it! Look at the propaganda that comes out of the capitalist North. They say we're racists, not because they ain't racists. Hell, look at their racial statistics if you don't believe me. They say that shit because they want to divide our people against themselves, and make us more vulnerable to a capitalist takeover. It's slimy shit, and you're too smart to fall for it."
Moving on, I asked Comrade Prejean about the South's political system. Did the system tolerate dissent? How could people redress their grievances?
"First of all, we respect the rights of all men. We don't go around shooting people we don't like, especially because down here, they're liable to shoot back. Freedom of speech is very important to us. It's part of our Western tradition, and we'd never censor dissent. How would we look if we shut up everyone who argued against us? We'd look like people without an argument. Anyone is free to speak as he pleases, so long as he doesn't make threats or leaks state secrets or anything of that sort. As for office, the Party and the government are intertwined. I know a lot of foreigners are squeamish about that, but all Party members are elected. Those in lower Party offices are elected by their local constituencies, those in state Party offices by state officials, and those in national Party offices by the entire nation. I'm elected by the people of Louisiana, for example."
I then asked about the South's isolationist policies, particularly its draconian immigration and trade policies. Why had the South closed itself off from the outside world? As a man living in New Orleans, I made the point that his local Party would benefit from increased international trade.
"Trade is beneficial at some times, and we ain't so stupid and pig-headed that we won't trade when it does us good. But if we're getting ripped off, and just lining some foreign capitalist's pockets? No thanks, that's not doing us any good. As for immigration, we have to look after our people first. We have nothing against the proletariat of other nations. Hell, we feel for them, and we support their struggle to liberate themselves from the capitalist yoke, same as the Russians. But bringing them here by the boatload doesn't help us, and it doesn't help them. The Yankees import millions of people from Asia and Africa, but who does it help? The immigrants, who become wage slaves to the capitalist multinationals? The Yankee workers, who now have to compete with foreign labor? Or the capitalist, who's just having a great day because he's making more profits for himself? We want to help the poor of the entire world, and the best way we can do that is by fighting capitalism abroad."
Building on that point, I asked about the Southrons' perpetually hostile relationship with its neighbors. I even dared to accuse the Southron Popular Republic of directly funding communist militants in civil wars across the world. Comrade Prejean surprised me with his frankness.
"Yeah, we materially supply the soldiers of the revolution, and we're damn proud of it. When the Third Revolution happened, we didn't just fight the Confederate Army. We fought the state militias, foreign "volunteers," and the Mexican and Yankee invaders. And we licked every single one of them. We'd be betraying our proletarian brothers abroad if we didn't put our martial skills to good use elsewhere. I'd be the first to admit that we'd probably lose a second round against the Yankees, but that's why we take the fight to Africa, to Asia, and to Latin America. We've had a lot of victories in the Latin world, and they're very grateful for it."
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Very fun overview, and at least as plausible as the normal Confederate Victory TL! I'm curious about the status of individual rights in the Southron Popular Republic, though - if people are generally as free as your interviewee says free-speech-wise, that would make this one of the best Communist states I've heard of.
Also, what's with Texas, California, and Indian Territory on the map? Are they independent, "Associated States," or what?
Also, what's with Texas, California, and Indian Territory on the map? Are they independent, "Associated States," or what?
So they're basically Southun-flavored 'Murica with anarcho-syndicalist leanings?
That's probably the only successful-Confederacy timeline with a surviving Confederate or post-Confederate state I would voluntarily live in.
That's probably the only successful-Confederacy timeline with a surviving Confederate or post-Confederate state I would voluntarily live in.
How did Texas pick up the OTL Oklahoma panhandle? And I presume the colors mean that Guyana is communist, but less aligned with the SPR than Gran Columbia. And Mexican Canal, I guess given that the Texans and Americans can't use the others...
Eh, I can think of a few near-ASB-level-implausible Confederacies I'd want to live in. (The ones that voluntarily abolish slavery shortly after gaining independence in a war fought to defend slavery, etc.) But this's the only plausible one.
It wasn't added to Oklahoma till after the Civil War iOTL; Texas probably picked it up due to superior lobbying ability.
Yeah, I wanted to experiment with a communist CSA that's a bit like some communist countries which retain a lot of the old ways, but still changes. I thought a communist CSA that goes in the direction of the OTL USA would be interesting.
Well, the xenophobia is unpleasant and the near-refusal to acknowledge that race even exists almost certainly allows racism to continue - that might even be why the position was adopted, so that they could reconcile their socialism with their prejudice against black people - but otherwise it doesn't sound too bad. Definitely one of the least dystopian Socialist entries in this thread.
Yep, certainly not smiles and sunshine, but I do present this from the point of view of government officials. I considered getting a PoV from an opposition member, but I didn't think I was going to make this an EEUSG entry.
Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
We have, but usually it was a member of the internal opposition who was in exile.
It is indeed. We've had a couple of nuclear wars, but nothing where civilization actually broke down to any degree.
There are indeed. While things were very bad in the area of California where they were located, they were less bad elsewhere, and of course far better in parts of the world that were neutral and un-involved in the war. In fact if you look at the map you'll notice a slowly recovering Oregon to the north of Jefferson where the state government survived.
The RIAM is the "Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of the Multiverse"- a fairly chill group of anarchists from the Nutshell who back opposition/revolutionary groups in different universes against authoritarian regimes.
Crying got it, although "Don't use the Nutshell to conquer other universes" isn't a rule, and has happened on occasion. People frequently mess with other universes- the RIAM has a small presence here via a local affiliate- for good or ill. It's a bit like our world- you have screwed up countries in places like Africa. Sometimes they get help from NGOs, sometimes they get help from wealthy well-intentioned foreign governments, sometimes that help is actually "help", and sometimes more powerful countries mess with them for personal gain or the lulz. Also new universes get connected to the Nutshell at random intervals, so it could be that this world is fairly new to the multiversal community.
I imagine people showing up to a totalitarian state that is aware of interdimensional travel unannounced have life expectancies that can be measured on a watch.
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