An early start

A German submarine sank the American battleship USS Texas on Friday, June 20, 1941. On Monday, June 23, 1941, Congress declared war on Germany, by a 387 to 48 margin in the House and 84 to 12 margin in the Senate. On June 24. 1941, Germany and Italy declared war on the US. Later that same day, Congress declared war on Italy.
On December 7. 1941, Japan declared war on the US and the UK and attacked American and British bases around South East Asia and the Pacific. With the state of high alert, the radar report of incoming planes at Pearl Harbor was taken seriously. The Japanese air attack was met in the sky by American planes. Word was quickly dispatched to American and British bases who began evacuating their fleets and putting their air forces in the sky. The Commonwealth and US fleets escaped largely unharmed. On December the US and UK declared war on Japan. In the American Congress the vote was 96-0 in the Senate and 434 -1 in the House. In March off 1942, US reinforcements landed on the Philippines. As part of the mobilization process in 1941. The Filipino Army had been fully supplied and they were able to hold off the Japanese attack. By May 1942, the Japanese had been driven from the Philippines. In July Allied forces were built up in New Guinea and landed in Guadalcanal. In November, Allied forces landed in Burma and the Gilbert Islands.
Operation Torch on June 7. 1942 began the North African campaign. The peace deal with Vichy commander Francois Darlan on June 10. 1942 ended the fighting in Algeria and Morocco. Allied forces moved on to Tunisia and secured it by May 27, 1942. In June 1942, Allied forces invaded Libya and quickly over ran the Italian colony by the end of July. In August, the invading Allies attacked German forces in Egypt. On September 2, 1942, the last German forces in Africa surrendered. On November 8, 1942, Allied forces invaded Sicily. Mussolini was overthrown on November 22, 1942. On December 3, 1942, the new Italian government declared war on Germany. By the new year German troops had secured control of most of the Italian peninsula. The Italian front became a bloody quagmire.
1943 brought impressive victories to the Allies. In the Pacific the great success was the conquest of the Mariana Islands in July. Bombing of the Japanese home islands would begin on November 28. 1943. In Europe, the WAllies would invade Normandy on October 6. 1943.
1944 would see the final Allied victories. The good news began with the victory in Iwo Jima in February 1944. April to June 1944 saw the successful invasion of Okinawa. In August 1944. WAllied troops would hurry into Poland to rescue the Warsaw rebels. They liberated Warsaw on August 27, 1944. The WAllies had already liberated Prague on August 23. 1944. Germany would surrender on September 6, 1944. The USSR would declare war on Japan on December 6, 1944. The Japanese Empire would surrender on December 16, 1944.
The changes brought by this TL primarily effects two countries. Poland is divided into two separate countries until 1990, when the citizens of Communist East Poland vote to rejoin West Poland. In 1945,Czechoslaviak comes to an end. There is a not so velvet divorce as Communist controlled Slovakia breaks away. Throughout the Cold War. West Poland and The Czech Republic are the front line nations of NATO. In another change, they are host to most of the US military bases. So if you are the child of a German and a member of the American armed forces, you may have a different heritage.
Another possible change is that Franklin Roosevelt may live longer. Probably not all that much longer.
 
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You can't just shift dates and have everything work out the same.

Everything does not work out exactly the same see what I said about Poland and Czechoslavika. If you see other changes that would come from this TL let us know. I don't see any others.
 
How do the Allies land in Poland? Their only lodgement on the continent is in Italy.
Also, most unsporting of the USSR, waiting until 50 years after the war ended to declare war on Japan. Still, surprise would be on their side!
 
How do the Allies land in Poland? Their only lodgement on the continent is in Italy.
Also, most unsporting of the USSR, waiting until 50 years after the war ended to declare war on Japan. Still, surprise would be on their side!

They don't land in Poland they come in through Germany. Sorry about the typo. I fixed it.
 

Japhy

Banned
Everything does not work out exactly the same see what I said about Poland and Czechoslavika. If you see other changes that would come from this TL let us know. I don't see any others.

But thats only the product of you kicking everything up a few months. All you've done with Poland and Czechoslovakia is scratch out East and West Germany and replaced them. At the very least do you think that a complete W. Allied swing though Germany, taking Berlin and the massive bloodbath might have changed something in the end of the war beyond the date?


Again, this isn't how wars work. At the very least you're ignoring tides, and weather conditions so half of your invasions are going to be non-starters on the dates you have them. On top of that things happening at different times will lead to different German and Japanese reactions. By landing W. Allied Troops in North Africa earlier you're removing the quick surrender of Vichy French troops, yes they're not the crack forces of the Afrika Korps but they will have to be removed, there goes your whole timeline right there.

And that is well before we get to the fact that the road to war with Japan in 1941 was a massively complicated affair, and it is not inevitable that the same US and Japanese reactions would take place when the US is already at war, after all, at that point the US playing a game of Chicken with another country while fighting the Nazis is a dangerous distraction, compared to doing it while at peace.
 
But thats only the product of you kicking everything up a few months. All you've done with Poland and Czechoslovakia is scratch out East and West Germany and replaced them. At the very least do you think that a complete W. Allied swing though Germany, taking Berlin and the massive bloodbath might have changed something in the end of the war beyond the date?

I don't think there would be a blood bath I think the WAllies would surround Berlin Hitler would commit suicide or be overgrown by German military eager to surrender to the WAllies not the Soviets and then the Germans would surrender. I am sorry I did not mention it. I also apologize for not mentioning East and West Germany. I assume that there would be an occupation agreement just as there was OTL. The difference ITTL is the Soviets have to supply East Germany by ship which a great financial burden, but not enough of one to make a difference historically.

Again, this isn't how wars work. At the very least you're ignoring tides, and weather conditions so half of your invasions are going to be non-starters on the dates you have them.

I plead ignorance about the weather conditions in the Channel in October and the Mediterranean in November.

By landing W. Allied Troops in North Africa earlier you're removing the quick surrender of Vichy French troops, yes they're not the crack forces of the Afrika Korps but they will have to be removed, there goes your whole timeline right there.

No I had the quick surrender of Vichy troops.


And that is well before we get to the fact that the road to war with Japan in 1941 was a massively complicated affair, and it is not inevitable that the same US and Japanese reactions would take place when the US is already at war, after all, at that point the US playing a game of Chicken with another country while fighting the Nazis is a dangerous distraction, compared to doing it while at peace.

I assume that once Tojo gets in power, the greedy Japanese will go to war.
 
In my latest "Not By Might, But By Right," the Germans keep challenging the more inexperienced Willkie and war occurs in September with the Texas attacked but not sunk. (It's in the link to my books)

One thing I do is have Southern France invaded around the start of the year (1944) instead of the middle of Italy (I just give approximate months and not dates). You've moved things up 3 months earlier than I have them, so i suppose an invasion of France is possible, but I ultimately have them discuss and nix it as too risky.

One thing I see coming from your scenario, as with mine, is more casualties on the Allied side overall. True, Germany had fewer fortifications along the Atlantic Wall, but they also had much more hardened troops, whereas by mid-1944 the Axis were scraping the bottom of the barrel. You also have the Allies with much less air superiority than OTL - it was February, 1944 I believe when a huge air battle clinched the massive air superiority that the air war saw throughout 1944-5.

In the Pacific, Korea might not happen; it might remained united, or have a Civil War won by the Allies a la Greece. This would depend on whether the Soviets can shift forces East in time. This culd cost more Allied lives in the short run, though, if they have to invade Korea/Manchuria. But, you don't really say when the Soviets enter the war against Japan so that could remain the same if in return for no Soviet sphere over the nations you name they are given half of Korea and Manchuria in their sphere.

If the U.S. is ready for Pearl Harbor and has reinforced Wake, you *might* be able to keep the Burma Road open there, too, which will have massive butterflies in India as well, as there could be foodstuffs sent to ease the famine with occurred in 1943.
 
One thing I do is have Southern France invaded around the start of the year (1944) instead of the middle of Italy (I just give approximate months and not dates). You've moved things up 3 months earlier than I have them, so i suppose an invasion of France is possible, but I ultimately have them discuss and nix it as too risky.

I assumed the invasion of Normandy would come 11 months after the invasion of Sicily, just like OTL.

One thing I see coming from your scenario, as with mine, is more casualties on the Allied side overall. True, Germany had fewer fortifications along the Atlantic Wall, but they also had much more hardened troops, whereas by mid-1944 the Axis were scraping the bottom of the barrel. You also have the Allies with much less air superiority than OTL - it was February, 1944 I believe when a huge air battle clinched the massive air superiority that the air war saw throughout 1944-5.

Interesting

In the Pacific, Korea might not happen; it might remained united, or have a Civil War won by the Allies a la Greece. This would depend on whether the Soviets can shift forces East in time. This culd cost more Allied lives in the short run, though, if they have to invade Korea/Manchuria. But, you don't really say when the Soviets enter the war against Japan so that could remain the same if in return for no Soviet sphere over the nations you name they are given half of Korea and Manchuria in their sphere.

I said that the Soviets declare war on Japan on December 6, 1944. I assume there would be an agreement that would divide Korea just like OTL.

If the U.S. is ready for Pearl Harbor and has reinforced Wake, you *might* be able to keep the Burma Road open there, too, which will have massive butterflies in India as well, as there could be foodstuffs sent to ease the famine with occurred in 1943.[/QUOTE]

How would that work?
 
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