An Earlier Austrian Emperor of Mexico

According to this post from an old thread, Archduke Karl of Teschen was offered the imperial diadem of Mexico shortly after it proclaimed its independence, and King Fernando forbade any of the Spanish infantes to accept the crown. And since the Bourbon-Bragança, Neapolitan and Parmese princes were Fernando's nephews (plus Spanish infantes), whilst his older brothers are Austrian emperor and Tuscan grand duke respectively, Karl is next in line (plus unlikely to inherit either Austria or Tuscany (or anywhere else). So, say Karl accepts the Mexican offer, what happens next?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Given the inability of Iturbide or Maximillian, the odds would

It depends wether or not he's put against the wall or manages to stabilize Mexico.

Given their inability to stabilize the country and the eventual fates of Iturbide or Maximillian, the odds would appear likely he goes against a wall.

Not sure who'd paint the picture, however. Einsle, maybe?

Best,
 
any hope for a Mexican Monarchy has to happen in the early days of independence, By the time of the French intervention the people of Mexico would never accept a Monarch
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Agustin was driven out in 1823 and executed

any hope for a Mexican Monarchy has to happen in the early days of independence, By the time of the French intervention the people of Mexico would never accept a Monarch

Agustin Iturbide was driven out in 1823 after reigning for less than a year as emperor and executed in 1824 when he tried to come back, so that ship has sailed long before the French showed up in the 1860s with Max in tow.

Best,
 
Agustin Iturbide was driven out in 1823 after reigning for less than a year as emperor and executed in 1824 when he tried to come back, so that ship has sailed long before the French showed up in the 1860s with Max in tow.

Best,

You seem to be omitting the fact he was a lunatic more busy with living the high life than ruling. Someone actually wanting to rule and better tge country might fare a tad better
 

TFSmith121

Banned
In a world where German-speaking Austrian

You seem to be omitting the fact he was a lunatic more busy with living the high life than ruling. Someone actually wanting to rule and better tge country might fare a tad better

In a world where German-speaking Austrian princes are imposed at the point of a gun upon Spanish-speaking Mexicans who just spent a decade or two getting rid of Spanish-speaking royals from the Peninsula I'm thinking no...;)

The conservative elite who essentially "won" the Mexican war of independence were a lot of things, but if nothing else, they wanted to keep their place in post-independence Mexico. Allowing yet another set of European minor nobility to set up shop in Mexico City doesn't do that...

Best,
 
According to this post from an old thread, Archduke Karl of Teschen was offered the imperial diadem of Mexico shortly after it proclaimed its independence, and King Fernando forbade any of the Spanish infantes to accept the crown. And since the Bourbon-Bragança, Neapolitan and Parmese princes were Fernando's nephews (plus Spanish infantes), whilst his older brothers are Austrian emperor and Tuscan grand duke respectively, Karl is next in line (plus unlikely to inherit either Austria or Tuscany (or anywhere else). So, say Karl accepts the Mexican offer, what happens next?

What about Napoleon II ? Actually he would count as an "Austrian".
 
Santa Anna had originally led the coup that brought down Emperor Agustin in the first place but later on, just as he at times posed as a liberal populist, he also took on more monarchial styles. He restored the Imperial Order of Our Lady of Guadalupe, even at one point taking to styling himself as “His Serene Highness”. An open admirer of Napoleon (who gloried in being referred to as the “Napoleon of the West”) some thought he harbored ambitions of making himself Emperor. That never happened but it was Santa Anna who first sent the staunch conservative Jose Maria Gutierrez d’Estrada to canvas the courts of Europe in search of a suitable Mexican monarch -a campaign the ardent reactionary continued even after Santa Anna had fallen from power yet again. This man would ultimately be a key player in the Mexican expatriate community in Europe that would bring Maximilian to Mexico.

In my small brain, that seems to indicate that Mexico had a desire for a European prince rather than one of their own to be emperor.:confused:

This was during the dictatorship of General Porfirio Diaz, one of the most famous enemies of Imperial Mexico. Obviously, Mexican monarchists had not fared well since the fall of the empire, some fled to south Texas, some to Europe and others kept low and silent. However, there was a slow return to boldness and although the regime of General Diaz has often been termed as one favoring the elites to gain legitimacy, in most cases these were not the true aristocrats of Mexico but more like a post-revolutionary nouveaux riche. The old aristocratic families and lingering monarchists got in touch with Prince Agustin and prevailed upon him to come out publicly in opposition to the Diaz dictatorship in 1890. This action (not unexpectedly as he was an army officer at the time) led to his being arrested, brought before a court martial and being put in prison for 14 months for sedition.
 
any hope for a Mexican Monarchy has to happen in the early days of independence, By the time of the French intervention the people of Mexico would never accept a Monarch

My thoughts exactly. Teschen seems to have been offered the crown after the refusal of the Spanish/Neapolitan/Parmese/Bourbon-Braganca infantes, which would put his rule as starting sometime in the late 1810s/early 1820s.

Can't seem to find info on why he turned the offer down though. Maybe his epilepsy was a factor?
 
You seem to be omitting the fact he was a lunatic more busy with living the high life than ruling. Someone actually wanting to rule and better tge country might fare a tad better

Wouldn't go so far to call Iturbide a lunatic, but if Karl can actually be an emperor a la his father (HRE Leopold II/GD Leopoldo I) rather than his uncle (HRE Josef II or Archduke Max (who cares only for his cellar, his couch and his hunt)), then perhaps he can manage better than D. Agustin
 
In a world where German-speaking Austrian princes are imposed at the point of a gun upon Spanish-speaking Mexicans who just spent a decade or two getting rid of Spanish-speaking royals from the Peninsula I'm thinking no...;)

The conservative elite who essentially "won" the Mexican war of independence were a lot of things, but if nothing else, they wanted to keep their place in post-independence Mexico. Allowing yet another set of European minor nobility to set up shop in Mexico City doesn't do that...

Best,

Except that the Mexicans shopped around for a European prince - it was just as the minister would later say when shopping for a king of the Spanish after La Gloriosa "to find a Catholic prince in Europe is as difficult as to find an atheist in heaven". That said, as long as they are still given their pound of flesh from Karl - who will have to make use of them in the beginning, they should be fine. Karl doesn't seem like one to be set to change the status quo too much. The issue crops up when Karl's son succeeds.

Mexican navy anyone? (OTL his one son was very influential pre-Maximilian in the Austrian Navy)
 
What about Napoleon II ? Actually he would count as an "Austrian".

Technically, yes. But considering that no one in Europe wanted him to even succeed his mother in Parma, giving him an empire even a non-European one, seems a tad dangerous.

After all, he is the guy who said "that if the Lord God were to allow me to fill any throne in the world, I would ask Him to descend from His" (typical Bonaparte blasphemy combined with their arrogance). Plus, as long as Metternich stays in power, Reichstadt's not going anywhere.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Even if the Conservatives go for it, which still seems

Except that the Mexicans shopped around for a European prince - it was just as the minister would later say when shopping for a king of the Spanish after La Gloriosa "to find a Catholic prince in Europe is as difficult as to find an atheist in heaven". That said, as long as they are still given their pound of flesh from Karl - who will have to make use of them in the beginning, they should be fine. Karl doesn't seem like one to be set to change the status quo too much. The issue crops up when Karl's son succeeds. Mexican navy anyone? (OTL his one son was very influential pre-Maximilian in the Austrian Navy)

Even if the Mexican Conservatives go for it, which still seems doubtful given the history, it raises the next question - how long until the Liberals rebel?

There's a potential for a stable Mexico after independence, but imposing a monarchy, under a Mexican or a European, doesn't seem like the path forward to do so...

Best,
 
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