An Animated John Carter of Mars movie in the late 1930's?

[vultan]

So, after seeing John Carter this weekend, I decided to peruse the wiki article on the film, seeing if I could find inspiration for my timeline, mostly. What I found kind of surprised me. I'll quote the wiki at length here:

In 1931 Looney Tunes director Bob Clampett approached Edgar Rice Burroughs with the idea of adapting A Princess of Mars into a feature-length animated film. Burroughs responded enthusiastically, recognizing that a regular live-action feature would face various limitations to adapt accurately, so he advised Clampett to write an original animated adventure for John Carter.[24] Working with Burroughs' son John Coleman Burroughs in 1935, Clampett used rotoscope and other hand-drawn techniques to capture the action, tracing over the motions of an athlete who performed John Carter's powerful movements in the reduced Martian gravity. Clampett designed Tharks, the Green, multi-armed Martians of Barsoom, giving them a believable appearance. He then produced footage of them riding their eight-legged Thoats at a gallop, which had all of their eight legs moving in coordinated motion; he also produced footage of a fleet of rocketships emerging from a Martian volcano. MGM was to release the cartoons, and the studio heads were enthusiastic about the series.[25]

The test footage, produced by 1936,[26] received negative reactions from film exhibitors across the U. S., especially in small towns; many gave their opinion that the concept of an Earthman on Mars was just too outlandish an idea for midwestern American audiences to accept. The series was not given the go-ahead, and Clampett was instead encouraged to produce an animated Tarzan series, an offer which he later declined. Clampett recognized the irony in MGM's decision, as the Flash Gordon movie serial, released in the same year by Universal Studios, was highly successful. He speculated that MGM believed that serials were only played to children during Saturday matinees, whereas the John Carter tales were intended to be seen by adults during the evening. The footage that Clampett produced was believed lost for many years, until Burroughs' grandson, Danton Burroughs, in the early 1970s found some of the film tests in the Edgar Rice Burroughs Inc. archives.[25] Had A Princess of Mars been released, it may have preceded Walt Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs to become the first American feature-length animated film.[27]

So. Let's say MGM executives decide to gut through with the production anyway for some reason, and we get a full-fledged feature film out of it by early 1937 (ahead of Snow White, which came out in December that year). Let's also say that it's at least as successful as the watershed Disney classic, becoming the first feature-length animated picture.

I, for one, see a multitude of butterflies that could be unleashed...

-While Snow White is still successful, and in all likelihood Disney still goes on to make much of his early classics, Snow White won't be the monolith production that helped bring animation to it's feet.

-Perhaps this also leads to more efforts in early science fiction on film. After all, MGM greenlit The Wizard of Oz due to the success of Snow White. Perhaps some Golden Age of Science Fiction stories (Astounding Science Fiction, Isaac Asimov, John W. Campbell, etc) are animated, or even made in live action as big-budgeted epics?

-Since this John Carter film would be pitched toward adults, maybe it destroys the concept of cartoons being "just for kids"?

Any other thoughts?

 

[Mike Stearns]

I, for one, see a multitude of butterflies that could be unleashed...

-While Snow White is still successful, and in all likelihood Disney still goes on to make much of his early classics, Snow White won't be the monolith production that helped bring animation to it's feet.

-Perhaps this also leads to more efforts in early science fiction on film. After all, MGM greenlit The Wizard of Oz due to the success of Snow White. Perhaps some Amazing Adventures stories are animated, or even made in live action as big-budgeted epics?

-Since this John Carter film would be pitched toward adults, maybe it destroys the concept of cartoons being "just for kids"?

Any other thoughts?

Not to long ago, there was a discussion on these boards about how to get a more adult oriented animation industry. This would probably be a big help. It would also give street cred to science fiction, and seriously influence George Lucas, or his equivalent, which would yield interesting butterflies by itself.

 

[Nivek]

umm Interesting, Maybe this one can help to take away the Stigma that Animation is For Childern(Disney's Snow White was wattered down for the original epic because would be pretty strong), and maybe make Animation Analog to Live-Action , like selling both as separated Product(some Bible Epic can allow even more realism in this fashion).

Yes that would be pretty nice and interesting, and how affect other market(Vital in Japan post bellum) would be even bigger.

And talking about that... if John Carter and then Snow White become more Hit.. maybe the Animated Films will competed Against Live Action movies early for Best Movie?

 

[thekingsguard]

It might also prolong the John Carter series time in the mainstream. One thing that has hurt the movie is that aside from people who read the stories are the only ones going to see it.

As mentioned, it very likely mainstreams science fiction as well as animation.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

This would make for a fascinating timeline; I wonder what the pop-culture butterflies would look like by the time WWII breaks out? You could have a lot more science fiction used as anti-nazi propaganda...

 

[vultan]

So, assuming science fiction gets more popular as a result of a John Carter of Mars epic in 1937 (I'll let someone with more knowledge of the history of animation address that subject), what are some science fiction works that could be adapted? Here are ideas I had:

1) In 1938, Orson Welles' career in radio took off the ground due to his famous adaptation of The War of the Worlds. What if, when he signs with RKO, decides to make an adaptation of the H.G. Wells classic for film?

As I mentioned in a earlier post, it was the success of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves that led to The Wizard of Oz being produced, so I'd imagine it'd be probable. In fact, assuming it hits theaters at around 1938/1939 (and we'll assume it does) the plot involving Martians invading Earth could be a timely critique of much of the military expansionism threatening world stability at the time (ie Italian invasion of Ethiopia, Nazi expansionism in Central and Eastern Europe, the Winter War, Japanese occupation of China, etc), with the Martians representing the fascist aggressors. If the film is successful, could it lead to a marked upturn in American domestic support for Britain, China, and other countries facing foreign aggression?

To be successful, of course, aside from a tight plot and good acting (which Welles can provide in abundance), it would need to be revolutionary from a special effects standpoint. The Wizard of Oz, of course, did much for special effects, but a good War of the Worlds adaptation would require it even moreso. Robert Wise would probably be helping a lot in the visual effects department, and I'd imagine with enough money in the budget, we could get effects resembling some of the better 1950's flying saucer movies. Could this lead to an early rise of special effects in cinema?

2) Universal, with it's horror department at the time burgeoning, may want to take a shot a sci-fi/horror film. Perhaps they get a director and writer good with suspense to tackle an adaptation of Lovecraft's At the Mountain of Madness? Of course it wouldn't be any more graphic than, say, 1951's The Thing from Another World, but it could be very disturbing. Thoughts?

3) And, of course, there would probably be even more sci-fi serials produced to ride on John Carter's coattails! Who could join the ranks of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers?

---

On a related note, perhaps the effect would be negligible at best, but could an increased amount of interest in science fiction in the late 1930's and early 1940's, right before American involvement in WWII, lead to some sort of increase in interest in the sciences, particularly in aerospace and other space-related fields? Star Wars and Star Trek got many kids interested in technology (everyone's heard the story that the guy who invented the design for the cell phone got it from Kirk's communication device). Carl Sagan was even inspired by the original Barsoom stories, and had a map of the Red Planet as imagined by Burroughs hung outside his office for years?

Interesting idea, or is it a stretch?

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

On a related note, perhaps the effect would be negligible at best, but could an increased amount of interest in science fiction in the late 1930's and early 1940's, right before American involvement in WWII, lead to some sort of increase in interest in the sciences, particularly in aerospace and other space-related fields? Star Wars and Star Trek got many kids interested in technology (everyone's heard the story that the guy who invented the design for the cell phone got it from Kirk's communication device). Carl Sagan was even inspired by the original Barsoom stories, and had a map of the Red Planet as imagined by Burroughs hung outside his office for years?

Interesting idea, or is it a stretch?

Not only an interesting idea, but if a TL were done, exploring how such an impact pans out would pretty much be mandatory...

 

[Mike Stearns]

3) And, of course, there would probably be even more sci-fi serials produced to ride on John Carter's coattails! Who could join the ranks of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers?

I could easily see this translating into a Golden Age of Genre Cinema. Maybe, in a effort to compete with John Carter, studios begin buying up the rights to early comic book characters, as well as science fiction and fantasy novels. The result is a flood of animated and live action sci-fi, fantasy and comic book films in the beginning in the late 1930s and lasting into the 40s and 50s. If we are lucky we might get the fabled David Lean Lord of the Rings scenario, while Tolkien is alive, along with Stanely Kubrick's Dune.

 

[vultan]

I could easily see this translating into a Golden Age of Genre Cinema. Maybe, in a effort to compete with John Carter, studios begin buying up the rights to early comic book characters, as well as science fiction and fantasy novels. The result is a flood of animated and live action sci-fi, fantasy and comic book films in the beginning in the late 1930s and lasting into the 40s and 50s. If we are lucky we might get the fabled David Lean Lord of the Rings scenario, while Tolkien is alive, along with Stanely Kubrick's Dune.

Fantastic ideas- an early respect for superheroes especially.

 

[vultan]

Any other thoughts?

 

[Brady Kj]

My only thought is this is cool.

 

[krinsbez]

A thought: how would John Carter becoming a mainstream success affect ERB's own work?

Fantastic ideas- an early respect for superheroes especially.

Perhaps Superman gets to be the comic strip it was supposed to be instead of being relegated to the far less prestigious comic books?

 

[Brady Kj]

I suppose so. But I imagine comic books will win more prestige than strips soon, being a longer format, and Superman would be a great contender for that comic book format, seeing as how he's a reverse John Carter. I just realized that Superman before it was published was essentially of an idea evolving from an evil psychic into a reverse John Carter.

 

[Brainbin]

So. Let's say MGM executives decide to gut through with the production anyway for some reason, and we get a full-fledged feature film out of it by early 1937 (ahead of Snow White, which came out in December that year. Let's also say that it's at least as successful as the watershed Disney classic, becoming the first feature-length animated picture.

Clampett definitely approached the right studio. MGM was the only studio to pay dividends throughout the Great Depression. Looking at the timing, I think I have the perfect agent for your POD: Irving Thalberg, legendary wunderkind, and primary creative force behind the studio (and adversary to the penny-pinching L.B. Mayer). Butterfly away his death (a very easy matter), and not only might you get the movie, but you also have the catalyst for a great many changes in Hollywood, which you can harness in the direction of your liking.

While Snow White is still successful, and in all likelihood Disney still goes on to make much of his early classics, Snow White won't be the monolith production that helped bring animation to it's feet.

"Disney's Folly" will look a lot less risky if John Carter is a success. This may alter the course of its development. Disney and/or animation buffs would be able to elaborate upon the multitude of butterflies it would unleash.

Perhaps this also leads to more efforts in early science fiction on film. After all, MGM greenlit The Wizard of Oz due to the success of Snow White. Perhaps some Golden Age of Science Fiction stories (Astounding Science Fiction, Isaac Asimov, John W. Campbell, etc) are animated, or even made in live action as big-budgeted epics?

Possible. What I see as likelier is science-fiction bleeding into other speculative fiction genres, including fantasy (Flash Gordon is essentially science-fantasy, after all). Remember, in this early era, the definition of science-fiction, relative to the other genres, is incredibly fluid.

Since this John Carter film would be pitched toward adults, maybe it destroys the concept of cartoons being "just for kids"?

A concept that has yet to be truly cemented at this point. Witness Felix the Cat or Betty Boop, both very successful in the recent past.

In 1938, Orson Welles' career in radio took off the ground due to his famous adaptation of The War of the Worlds. What if, when he signs with RKO, decides to make an adaptation of the H.G. Wells classic for film?

A very safe and logical assumption. The obvious question is what this does to *Citizen Kane. And if Welles doesn't cross Hearst, he may find his debut film far more popular and acclaimed. If many of the techniques he and his crew would pioneer in Kane IOTL find themselves in War of the Worlds instead, it would have a greater impact than 2001 and Star Wars combined.

To be successful, of course, aside from a tight plot and good acting (which Welles can provide in abundance), it would need to be revolutionary from a special effects standpoint. The Wizard of Oz, of course, did much for special effects, but a good War of the Worlds adaptation would require it even moreso. Robert Wise would probably be helping a lot in the visual effects department, and I'd imagine with enough money in the budget, we could get effects resembling some of the better 1950's flying saucer movies. Could this lead to an early rise of special effects in cinema?

Special effects are already established at this time. King Kong was considered a special effects extravaganza, and any War of the Worlds film would build upon that. I don't think they could do as much as, say, Forbidden Planet, but they should give it the old college try.

Universal, with it's horror department at the time burgeoning, may want to take a shot a sci-fi/horror film. Perhaps they get a director and writer good with suspense to tackle an adaptation of Lovecraft's At the Mountain of Madness? Of course it wouldn't be any more graphic than, say, 1951's The Thing from Another World, but it could be very disturbing. Thoughts?

Like I said, the line between science-fiction and horror will be blurred. Universal might view it as a perfectly logical next step.

And, of course, there would probably be even more sci-fi serials produced to ride on John Carter's coattails! Who could join the ranks of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers?

Why not adapt a comic book? Captain Marvel? Captain America? Superman? Once the war hits, they would all be prime candidates for adaptation. And then, of course, there's Batman. Perhaps Orson Welles might become intrigued by the character...

Interesting idea, or is it a stretch?

Science-fiction has "created the future" at least as far back as Jules Verne. I'd go so far as to call it a near-certainty.

 

[Thande]

That's a very cool WI.

I suppose it could also have been a film serial to cash in on Flash Gordon's success.

 

[Brady Kj]

These were very budget-conscious times. The studios might see live action science fiction as a big gamble if they can draw crowds with an animated, cheaper version.
Granted, there's still something to be said for impressing audiences with special effects, but what if the execs decide it's not worth it?

 

[vultan]

Looking at the timing, I think I have the perfect agent for your POD: Irving Thalberg, legendary wunderkind, and primary creative force behind the studio (and adversary to the penny-pinching L.B. Mayer). Butterfly away his death (a very easy matter), and not only might you get the movie, but you also have the catalyst for a great many changes in Hollywood, which you can harness in the direction of your liking.

Brainbin, this is why you're awesome.

 

[Shawn Driscoll]

So. Let's say MGM executives decide to gut through with the production anyway for some reason, and we get a full-fledged feature film out of it by early 1937 (ahead of Snow White, which came out in December that year). Let's also say that it's at least as successful as the watershed Disney classic, becoming the first feature-length animated picture.

I would have one more '30s cartoon film DVD on my shelf next to my Snow White, Gulliver's Travels, and Max Fleischer Superman DVDs.

 

[unclepatrick]

An Animated John Carter of Mars Movie in the Late 1930?

I not sure that a War of the Worlds Movie would have been possible in the 1940's, but We might have seen Wille O'Brien's Movie The War Eagles, about Viking Attacking New York City on Giant Birds. O'Brien try to make the film starting 1938 but could not get funds and quit in 1941 when the US enter WW2.

As for Science Fiction Serials, The most likely would have been Doc Savage. I would have love the Republic studio version with Buster Crabb.

As for Lovecraft, I don't think that any studio would have try to do Mountain of Madness in the 1930 or early 1940's. Guillermo Del Toro has failed to raise the fund to make it in the 2000's. The Lovecraft story that might have seen filming would have been "the Dunwitch Horror". A comic Book in the 1980's had a fictional Movie studio that did A James Whale version of Dunwitch Horror. A version of the Stories was finally adapted in the 1970's.

 

[vultan]

I not sure that a War of the Worlds Movie would have been possible in the 1940's, but We might have seen Wille O'Brien's Movie The War Eagles, about Viking Attacking New York City on Giant Birds. O'Brien try to make the film starting 1938 but could not get funds and quit in 1941 when the US enter WW2.

As for Science Fiction Serials, The most likely would have been Doc Savage. I would have love the Republic studio version with Buster Crabb.

As for Lovecraft, I don't think that any studio would have try to do Mountain of Madness in the 1930 or early 1940's. Guillermo Del Toro has failed to raise the fund to make it in the 2000's. The Lovecraft story that might have seen filming would have been "the Dunwitch Horror". A comic Book in the 1980's had a fictional Movie studio that did A James Whale version of Dunwitch Horror. A version of the Stories was finally adapted in the 1970's.

Now, one could argue the tools for a War of the Worlds film were there. For instance, Welles could get Willis O'Brien to do stop motion for the Martian tripods. However, I'd never heard of The War Eagles. Thank you for that.

As for the Cthulhu Mythos, sadly I must agree with you. Here's hoping del Toro gets his shot one day.