An american civilization up to par with the eurasian ones.

Seraphiel

Banned
What would the world be like if the americas had spawned a civiliation around the same time mesopotamia did? I know the world would be alot different but i think the old world would be relavtivly the same untill contact is made between the continents.
 
I heard that Peru hosted one of the three most ancient civilizations. Just look for pre-inca Peruvian History and you'll find it.
 
Would be interesting if this would mean the discovery of the New World is from the perspective of the western hemisphere.

The colonization of Spain would be rather interesting. :D
 

NothingNow

Banned
What would the world be like if the americas had spawned a civiliation around the same time mesopotamia did? I know the world would be alot different but i think the old world would be relavtivly the same untill contact is made between the continents.

You've got the Norte Chico Civilization in Peru, and they poped up sometime around 2500BCE, and from them a continuous line of Civilizations right up to the Conquest of the Incan Empire.

Also, two threads on Pre Columbian history in one day? That's got to be a record for here.
 
Would require a major change in both fauna (more domesticable animals) and flora (domesticable plants) in the Americas. Empires are built not on philosophy or even on iron, but on the backs of beasts of burden and peasants who can grow a large surplus of carbohydrate-rich food. Not that that's impossible, mind you, but it would require getting very familiar with American environments and altering them from the base of the food web up, millions of years ago, without destroying the evolution of camels, horses, and dogs (if you want those in the Old World).

I feel compelled to point out that even if civilization develops in the Americas at the same time and along a similar scale to Europe's, there is no guarantee that their technology will advance as fast. Trade would be difficult, requiring the crossing of thousands of miles of ocean and/or jungle for different civilizations, and this will slow the spread of innovations. However, a further spread of innovation could still be possible, especially if a maritime culture develops. In my timeline the American Stinky Pig, I had the Mochihican people become Polynesian analogues moving across the Pacific coast, and this allowed the Andes and Mesoamerica to trade useful tech such as writing and the wheel.
 
What would the world be like if the americas had spawned a civiliation around the same time mesopotamia did? I know the world would be alot different but i think the old world would be relavtivly the same untill contact is made between the continents.


Mass death worldwide. Vlad Tepes. Congratulations.
 

Seraphiel

Banned
but what if regardless of POD the american civs managed to become as advanced as the eurasions? If columbus came and met fishingship or warship sailing in the caribean with cannons and musquets wouldnt something big happen?
 

evb

Banned
Not that that's impossible, mind you, but it would require getting very familiar with American environments and altering them from the base of the food web up, millions of years ago, without destroying the evolution of camels, horses, and dogs (if you want those in the Old World).

In my timeline the American Stinky Pig, I had the Mochihican people become Polynesian analogues moving across the Pacific coast, and this allowed the Andes and Mesoamerica to trade useful tech such as writing and the wheel.

A. Or millions back, or simply prevent the mass extinctions of the end of the ice age. This all is discussed in "Guns, germs and steel" by Jared Diamond.

B. The fact that there are so many environments to pass (the problem is for a person to have domesticated plants all the way in his journey) when you want to trade goods and ideas, so that slows the transfer rate for America. Eurasia is oriented east-west and has relatively few climates, so a farmer can pass all this land with his own food.

C. And, with the race gun (in lack of a better term) firing in 11,000 bce, you have everyone in the same starting point. From there Eurasia will soot up, while America stays in the back. Why didn't the wheel (invented as part of a Mexican toy) meet the Lama (to make a usable carriage/chariot)? Because between these empires there was nothing. And even if there was, the problem of multiple climates would overtake them.
 
You've got the Norte Chico Civilization in Peru, and they poped up sometime around 2500BCE, and from them a continuous line of Civilizations right up to the Conquest of the Incan Empire.

Also, two threads on Pre Columbian history in one day? That's got to be a record for here.
Too bad there haven't been any topics on actual Pre-Columbian people for a while. Most "pre-Columbian" topics here seem to be about how to make them exactly like the old world. :(
 

Seraphiel

Banned
What would be the affects if pre columbia civilizations managed to get to roman era technology on europe and the old world in general? Because i find it extremely intetersting if there was a cold war (like the OTl one) between the United Inca Empire and the Kindodm of France:D
 

evb

Banned
There needs to be a type of method that you won't go over other people's idea. It happens all the time. Speaking of which, I have a TL just starting on the same material. Damn it. :mad:
Anyway, I'm already at the task of finding a solution to this problem.
 
Too bad there haven't been any topics on actual Pre-Columbian people for a while. Most "pre-Columbian" topics here seem to be about how to make them exactly like the old world. :(

That is true. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that Indian cultures with European-style technology would be European. It's not like the Plains Indians became more European when they acquired guns and horses-if anything, that tech helped them maintain their traditional lifestyle for much longer than they would have otherwise.
 
I recommend you read "1491", and "Guns, Germs and Steel" it'll answer all your questions.

First of all Peru had the second oldest civilization after Sumer. At one point it was one of two civilized regions in the world and larger than Sumer.

The Americas lacked the domesticable animals Eurasia had. There simply weren't any animals they could have successfuly domesticated beyond the few they did. That plus being isolated from most of the world's knowelge means they never had much of a chance to remain on par with Eurasia.
 
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