An Alternate Olifant...

MacCaulay

Banned
...after World War II, the South African army was able to purchase a fair number of A-34 Comet cruiser tanks from the British at rock bottom prices. They'd had previous experience with the vehicles in Italy against the Nazis, and were quite impressed with the vehicle's speed and reliability.

With the purchase of a few dozen Centurion Mk. 3s from Britain in the 1950s, South Africa was able to receive a tank that was a generation beyond what the Comet was. The Panzer School fell in love with the Centurion, buying hulks from India and surplus wrecks from Israel to recondition and put into service first with an upgraded engine as the Semel, then with a new gun and aiming system as the Olifant.

But in many ways, this South African connection with the Centurion started because of the initial purchase of those used Mk. 3s from Britain, which gave the SADF's School of Armour (Panzer School) a reason and ability to switch from the Comet.

So...what if they hadn't made that first purchase? WWII buffs: could the Comet have been upgraded to anywhere near the capability (new engine and transmission, 20 pdr and then L7 105mm gun, addon armour, laser and night sights) that the Centurion would later be upgraded to?
 

mowque

Banned
MacCaulay- So you can't help me out? I sent you a PM, please, at least send one back saying no. Have to dig up another expert in tanks then.:)
 
Tanks can be modified any which way, so long as you have the money for it. You can put in a new engine and a completely new turret and gun. If the chassis isn't big enough just lengthen and widen it and add a 6th road wheel. It's been done with other tanks.

I don't see why SA would ignore the Centurion though, it was such a well designed tank for its time.
 
So...what if they hadn't made that first purchase? WWII buffs: could the Comet have been upgraded to anywhere near the capability (new engine and transmission, 20 pdr and then L7 105mm gun, addon armour, laser and night sights) that the Centurion would later be upgraded to?
Given the conversion of a number of Cromwells into Charioteer tank destroyers I'd expect that it'd be possible to refit the Comet with a 20 pounder and later a L7, but at the cost of a fitting a new turret right from the start o the upgrade process.. likely that said turret will be of a less than optimal design due to the combination of larger gun and smallish turret ring. I don't have enough knowedge about the rest to say for certain, but I'd expect an armour upgrade to the same standard as OTLs Olifant is going too far.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Given the conversion of a number of Cromwells into Charioteer tank destroyers I'd expect that it'd be possible to refit the Comet with a 20 pounder and later a L7, but at the cost of a fitting a new turret right from the start o the upgrade process.. likely that said turret will be of a less than optimal design due to the combination of larger gun and smallish turret ring. I don't have enough knowedge about the rest to say for certain, but I'd expect an armour upgrade to the same standard as OTLs Olifant is going too far.

Well, I realized that the Isrealis managed to use a different 105 on their Super Shermans: the AMX-13's 105mm gun was a different design that required them to change the turret ring and add a bustle to the back of the turret, but it was possible.

So...sure, it's not the famous L7, but it's a good gun. And by the early -70s, the South Africans had developed a 90mm gun that they'd put on their armoured cars that was capable of penetrating the armour on the T-55s they faced in Angola.

I suppose instead of taking pages from the Isreali book of Centurion adjustment, they'd be looking more at how they adjusted the Sherman. Maybe even trying to buy them.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Well, I realized that the Isrealis managed to use a different 105 on their Super Shermans: the AMX-13's 105mm gun was a different design that required them to change the turret ring and add a bustle to the back of the turret, but it was possible.

So...sure, it's not the famous L7, but it's a good gun. And by the early -70s, the South Africans had developed a 90mm gun that they'd put on their armoured cars that was capable of penetrating the armour on the T-55s they faced in Angola.

I suppose instead of taking pages from the Isreali book of Centurion adjustment, they'd be looking more at how they adjusted the Sherman. Maybe even trying to buy them.

I think the IDF might agree to sell a few examples. South Africa isn't a threat to Israel and the Israelis don't give a crap about what people say as long as France or the US keep up the weapons shipments.

Edit: They might also do a joint project to develop a *Merkava. the IDF has a domestic requirement similar to what the South African armed forces might have needed to suppress the sort of revolt that they feared. The Kalahari and the Transvaal are great places to test out a tank.
 
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