An alternate French capital in the 1600s?

Actually, I am trying to make that argument; indeed, could Ile-de-France become a Medieval, early modern, or even late modern version of, say, the suburban sprawl in Southern California today?
No. There's no logistical way that medieval or modern Paris or Orléans could manage to grow this much without collapsing under its own weight would it be only reaching current expansion.
Medieval Paris was already a barely managable demographical monster.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
No. There's no logistical way that medieval or modern Paris or Orléans could manage to grow this much without collapsing under its own weight would it be only reaching current expansion.
Medieval Paris was already a barely managable demographical monster.
How exactly did the Washington D.C.-Boston megalopolis as well as the Southern California megalopolis manage to achieve such levels of population growth, though?

Also, what about building this canal earlier? :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briare_Canal
 

CaliGuy

Banned
By beneficing from XIXth/XXth logistics?
Fair enough, I suppose:

animation-population-density.gif


However, what about having some 1600s French King invest aggressively in improving logistics technology instead of spending this money on frequent wars?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, why not try building the Briare Canal earlier so that there can be river traffic between Paris and Orleans?
 
Also, why not try building the Briare Canal earlier so that there can be river traffic between Paris and Orleans?
The canal involves complex water locks, as it split the drainage divide of Seine and Loire. Remember that it was one of the first, if not the first, summit-level canal in Europe. At very best, you'd need earlier technological advance.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The canal involves complex water locks, as it split the drainage divide of Seine and Loire. Remember that it was one of the first, if not the first, summit-level canal in Europe. At very best, you'd need earlier technological advance.
When were complex water locks developed, though?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
XVIth century, IIRC, at least for what matter Europe.
OK; however, even with this canal being built on schedule, Louis (either the 13th or the 14th) can relocate the French capital to Orleans and then aggressively promote trade and travel on this canal between Paris and Orleans.
 
OK; however, even with this canal being built on schedule, Louis (either the 13th or the 14th) can relocate the French capital to Orleans and then aggressively promote trade and travel on this canal between Paris and Orleans.
From the XIIIth century onwards, Paris as a capital is far too entranched into French political identity to be written off, especially in favour of a city as exc entered as Orléans (especially giving the recent Protestantism of the city) : distance are still too important (at best 4 hours of uninterrupted travel for malle-postes in the XIXth, more in dilligences). it's worth noting that before the XVIIIth century, most of this traffic was focused on northern France.

You'd need a major political identity shift, for writting off Paris as a capital from there(remembering that centralization, politically and administratively, was a pluricentury project) : keeping in mind that even French Revolution, which was as much as a radical identitarian shift you could get, never really put that in question (partially because of the existence of Versailles as a political center).

Remember that, at this point, virtually every regional urban or structural project was made, including Paris as a natural center : any capital change this radical (again, not that you couldn't end with a La Paz/Sucre situation, on which Paris would still have the upper position IMO) would need a massive update of northern France urban and structural policy.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
From the XIIIth century onwards, Paris as a capital is far too entranched into French political identity to be written off, especially in favour of a city as exc entered as Orléans (especially giving the recent Protestantism of the city) : distance are still too important (at best 4 hours of uninterrupted travel for malle-postes in the XIXth, more in dilligences). it's worth noting that before the XVIIIth century, most of this traffic was focused on northern France.

You'd need a major political identity shift, for writting off Paris as a capital from there(remembering that centralization, politically and administratively, was a pluricentury project) : keeping in mind that even French Revolution, which was as much as a radical identitarian shift you could get, never really put that in question (partially because of the existence of Versailles as a political center).

OK; understood.

Also, though, couldn't Orleans's Protestant history actually work to its advantage by compelling the French King to re-Catholicize Orleans?

Remember that, at this point, virtually every regional urban or structural project was made, including Paris as a natural center : any capital change this radical (again, not that you couldn't end with a La Paz/Sucre situation, on which Paris would still have the upper position IMO) would need a massive update of northern France urban and structural policy.

Any advice on how to do this?
 
Also, though, couldn't Orleans's Protestant history actually work to its advantage by compelling the French King to re-Catholicize Orleans?
Well, if the royal incitative to move out to Versailles was that Paris was seen as untrustworthy when it came to its political alliegances...

Any advice on how to do this?
Assuming you were talking of the double capital possibility : If French monarchy manages to withstand the political crisis of XVIIIth significantly better (for instance, with a maintained Maupéou reform), Versailles remains as a political and head-executive center, while the low-executive and most of legislative power likely stay in Paris, as long as a more decentralized but relatively domined by Paris judicial system.
 
One vaguely plausible idea might be for the King to decide to permanently live in Amboise, where the court spent a lot of time anyway. In OTL the Amboise Conspiracy of 1560 apparently frightened the Valois into leaving the Château for good. If you can avoid the conspiracy happening somehow, maybe Amboise can butterfly away Versailles?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Well, if the royal incitative to move out to Versailles was that Paris was seen as untrustworthy when it came to its political alliegances...

Fair enough, I suppose.

Assuming you were talking of the double capital possibility : If French monarchy manages to withstand the political crisis of XVIIIth significantly better (for instance, with a maintained Maupéou reform), Versailles remains as a political and head-executive center, while the low-executive and most of legislative power likely stay in Paris, as long as a more decentralized but relatively domined by Paris judicial system.

OK; however, I meant a second capital at Orleans.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
One vaguely plausible idea might be for the King to decide to permanently live in Amboise, where the court spent a lot of time anyway. In OTL the Amboise Conspiracy of 1560 apparently frightened the Valois into leaving the Château for good. If you can avoid the conspiracy happening somehow, maybe Amboise can butterfly away Versailles?
Amboise looks even more distant from Paris than Orleans is, though!
 
One vaguely plausible idea might be for the King to decide to permanently live in Amboise, where the court spent a lot of time anyway. In OTL the Amboise Conspiracy of 1560 apparently frightened the Valois into leaving the Château for good. If you can avoid the conspiracy happening somehow, maybe Amboise can butterfly away Versailles?
Amboise looks even more distant from Paris than Orleans is, though!
I'd want to point that it was less a capital in any sense of the word (it would be as arguing that Woodstock was the English capital), than the whole of Touraine being mostly a meta-Versailles : a network of cities and residences with the capacity to host courts and high administration (remember that French court remained semi-nomadic until the XVIIth century, altough in less big circles since the XVth), but most of the institutions being permanently settled in Paris.

OK; however, I meant a second capital at Orleans.
Too distant from Paris to be really workable.
 
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