An alternate French capital in the 1600s?

CaliGuy

Banned
Had French King Louis XIII and/or his son Louis XIV decided not to have a French capital (and palace) at Versailles--but rather to move the French capital somewhere farther away from Paris--where exactly would(/could) the French capital have been moved to?

Indeed, what new capital city can there be for France which is viable, far away from Paris, and fit for a French King to live in?

Any thoughts on this?
 
Paris being the head city of France was far too entrenched (since litterally a millenium) to be dealt with without a massive political and cultural change.
At this point, most of basic national institutions (political or cultural) were set in Paris, which imply any new residence to be set around the city.

At the very best, it implies better (far better) transportation network, and it would probably makes the new residence somewhat of a symbolical political capital, while Paris would remain an executive and parlementarian-like capital. (Sort of Sucre/La Paz relationship, probably more in favour of Paris).
 
Paris being the head city of France was far too entrenched (since litterally a millenium) to be dealt with without a massive political and cultural change.
At this point, most of basic national institutions (political or cultural) were set in Paris, which imply any new residence to be set around the city.

At the very best, it implies better (far better) transportation network, and it would probably makes the new residence somewhat of a symbolical political capital, while Paris would remain an executive and parlementarian-like capital. (Sort of Sucre/La Paz relationship, probably more in favour of Paris).

For some reason I perceived Orléans as a possible capital. Is that possible in such a late period?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Paris being the head city of France was far too entrenched (since litterally a millenium) to be dealt with without a massive political and cultural change.
At this point, most of basic national institutions (political or cultural) were set in Paris, which imply any new residence to be set around the city.

At the very best, it implies better (far better) transportation network, and it would probably makes the new residence somewhat of a symbolical political capital, while Paris would remain an executive and parlementarian-like capital. (Sort of Sucre/La Paz relationship, probably more in favour of Paris).
Very good points! :)

However, could this at least result in another major city and metropolitan area--specifically with millions of people living there--gradually being created somewhere else in France (as a result of France's new political capital being moved there)?
 
For some reason I perceived Orléans as a possible capital. Is that possible in such a late period?
I don't think so : while it was one of the main french cities until the XVIIth , it suffered from the Wars of Religion and his role as a Protestant stronghold doesn't speaks well for a future political leadership.

Eventually, it was far too excentered to serve as anything but a temporary relocation (as Troyes or Blois were), especially when Paris more and more centralized political and cultural institutions since the XIIth century.
Versailles could effectively serve as a royal residence AND an executive center, because of its closeness to Paris; but the modern royal residence along the Loire didn't so much : while Tours served as an executive capital for Valois for roughly a century in the XVth and XVIth (mostly because it was felt that Paris couldn't be that trusted in the XVth, , it wasn't so much a capital than a meta-Versailles (less Tours itself than Touraine as a whole eventually).

It's extremely hard to ignore medieval and modern Paris, as a demographic and institutional giant in France, when it comes to point centers of power : to use the exemple of Tours again, while the city was prosperous and beneficied from royal patronage, it never really managed to replace Paris as the "natural head city" of France, even culturally.

Eventually, whatever Versailles or Tours, I'd only see these becoming entranched capital "only" as sharing the role with Paris, and probably being overshadowed as cities (maybe not as regions) by her.
 
However, could this at least result in another major city and metropolitan area--specifically with millions of people living there--gradually being created somewhere else in France (as a result of France's new political capital being moved there)?
The closest thing you had of a metropolitain area in early modern and modern Northern France was Touraine, and by that I mean a relatively coherent network of cities, royal residence and countryside.

Now, if you meant one city toppling or equalling Paris demographically : Paris was a medieval demographic monster, one of the chief cities of Christiendom, being rivaled only by major Italian cities. We're talking at least 50,000 at the beggining of the XIIth century; at least 300,000 at its medieval apogee (conversly, at best 500,000 at its medieval apogee).
Its demographic and political gravity alone made Capetians, originally more centered around Orléans or wandering in Ile-De-France, more and more settling in the city. In a sense, it's less Capetians that made Paris a capital, than Paris making Capetians choosing it as a capital.

It's going to be hard to re-edit somewhere without really tweaking with western Europe history, let alone having a roughly equivalent XVIIth century. It's going to involve a really early PoD, Xth century at very best, and even with a Late Carolingian survival, with Paris remaining a Robertian holding and Laon the Carolingian center...
I don't think Laon, for instance, could come to the same importance Paris had IOTL : I could see a TL where Paris' importance and growth are really limited, being more on par with the German or secondary Italian cities, but I don't think it would imply another french city benefiting from the change.

You'd probably need no-Capetian takeover and more successful Late Carolingians, and maybe a less powerful kingdom of France politically-wise to have a shot at this : it could go either way, different capital or meta-capital made of a network of cities. But if it's not impossible or even implausible in the strictest sense, it's not going to be easy : at least since Carolingian times, Paris was seen as the natural head city of Francia proper.
 
If you really mean farther, Lyons, Beaune or Bordeaux each have solid reasons why they could act as an alternate capital. But if you just mean to be what Versailles was but a bit further, anywhere really...Rheims, Poitiers, Amboise, etc. Or some other hunting lodge.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The closest thing you had of a metropolitain area in early modern and modern Northern France was Touraine, and by that I mean a relatively coherent network of cities, royal residence and countryside.

Now, if you meant one city toppling or equalling Paris demographically : Paris was a medieval demographic monster, one of the chief cities of Christiendom, being rivaled only by major Italian cities. We're talking at least 50,000 at the beggining of the XIIth century; at least 300,000 at its medieval apogee (conversly, at best 500,000 at its medieval apogee).
Its demographic and political gravity alone made Capetians, originally more centered around Orléans or wandering in Ile-De-France, more and more settling in the city. In a sense, it's less Capetians that made Paris a capital, than Paris making Capetians choosing it as a capital.

It's going to be hard to re-edit somewhere without really tweaking with western Europe history, let alone having a roughly equivalent XVIIth century. It's going to involve a really early PoD, Xth century at very best, and even with a Late Carolingian survival, with Paris remaining a Robertian holding and Laon the Carolingian center...
I don't think Laon, for instance, could come to the same importance Paris had IOTL : I could see a TL where Paris' importance and growth are really limited, being more on par with the German or secondary Italian cities, but I don't think it would imply another french city benefiting from the change.

You'd probably need no-Capetian takeover and more successful Late Carolingians, and maybe a less powerful kingdom of France politically-wise to have a shot at this : it could go either way, different capital or meta-capital made of a network of cities. But if it's not impossible or even implausible in the strictest sense, it's not going to be easy : at least since Carolingian times, Paris was seen as the natural head city of Francia proper.
Thank you very much for this extremely detailed explanation! :)
 
What about the idea of a planned city somewhere up or down river from Paris? Far enough to be separate but still part of Paris' infrastructure network. A Washington D.C. for 1600s France.
 
The access to the Atlantic Ocean for Bordeaux, perhaps? Just a guess on my own part.
Don't forget that Paris was (and still is) an important fluvial harbour (take a look at Paris' arms) : the access to the Atlantic was more or less guaranteed along the Seine.
Granted, it wasn't Rouen, but it represented a part of Paris.

Not that direct access to the sea was that a sign of guaranteed growth : Bordeaux remained fairly secondary until the XIIIth century, when it became the key trade center between Gascony and British Isles.
 
What about Orleans with enough suburban growth in Paris, though?
I don't think you really measure the distance between Paris and Orléans (that and the fact Orléans was too excentered from both Parisian centers, and Touraine network). We're talking, at best (meaning current Parisian agglomeration limit) of 130 km.
Unless arguing that Ile-De-France could somehow become a medieval megalopolis, with the same spawn than 2010's New York/Philadelphia continuity...
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I don't think you really measure the distance between Paris and Orléans (that and the fact Orléans was too excentered from both Parisian centers, and Touraine network). We're talking, at best (meaning current Parisian agglomeration limit) of 130 km.
Unless arguing that Ile-De-France could somehow become a medieval megalopolis, with the same spawn than 2010's New York/Philadelphia continuity...
Actually, I am trying to make that argument; indeed, could Ile-de-France become a Medieval, early modern, or even late modern version of, say, the suburban sprawl in Southern California today?
 
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