An Alternate Civil War POD

Well this is a discussion I'm interested in since the POD is what drives my TL (cough shameless plug cough). In a nutshell it was an idea I had through being tired of the same POD about the Civil War being done to death so I thought of something else.

The premise is that the US annexes more of Mexico than they did in OTL Mexican War (all of California up to Baja, Sonora, Chiuaua, Alamos, Batopilas, Mapimi, Nazas, Coahuila, most of Neuvo Leon, and Matamoros if that gives you an idea) and in the resulting post-war fall out this merely exacerbates existing tensions between the North and South, South doesn't want any others hostile to slavery in the Union, Mexicans unhappy about being forced into the Union, Northerners unhappy about the annexation or the potential spread of slavery.

Flawed solutions are drawn up: California is split into two states, a free north and slave owning south, Another flawed compromise of 1850, the slave states do all they can to ensure that the Mexican territories are unable to apply for statehood as long as possible, among other things.

Now that's my premise for the lead up to an alternate Civil War and I just wonder how it might play out (outside of my own TL of course, but that's a different thing entirely :p) and I'm wondering on the thoughts of the board on how this POD would effect the Civil War.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
It's intriguing, but I just don't see several million

It's intriguing, but I just don't see several million Spanish-speaking Catholics being anyone's idea of a calming effect on domestic US politics in 1850...what size increase in population would come from all that "extra" territory?

Historically, all the territories in the Mexican Cession were handled carefully, for all sorts of reasons; I just don't see a convincing pathway for a larger US-Mexico deal than historical (other than maybe what eventually became the Gadsden Purchase) and that was pretty close to empty at the time, anyway.

Best,
 
It's intriguing, but I just don't see several million Spanish-speaking Catholics being anyone's idea of a calming effect on domestic US politics in 1850...what size increase in population would come from all that "extra" territory?

Historically, all the territories in the Mexican Cession were handled carefully, for all sorts of reasons; I just don't see a convincing pathway for a larger US-Mexico deal than historical (other than maybe what eventually became the Gadsden Purchase) and that was pretty close to empty at the time, anyway.

Best,

Here's one way to get more of Mexico:

Have Nicholas Trist not be the emissary sent to negotiate.

TFSmith121 the lack of Nicholas Trist seems to be an answer I see often for this :p

Though I do have to wonder what you're opinion is on the matter and whether the US occupation of further Mexican territories would stretch the US past the point where it could easily keep the lid on the secession of the South and a simultaneous uprising in the Mexican territories.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Understood, but I think the thing to remember here is:

Neither the Whigs nor the Democrats were exactly keen on additional Catholic voters in the 1850 election...

There's a reason the Know-Nothings arose, after all.

That changed by 1860, of course (umpteen millions of mostly Irish emigrants to the northeastern states), but in 1848, I really see that as being a major domestic issue in the US generally and Congress specifically - which has to approve any annexation, obviously.

And trying to occupy "Old" Mexico without consent is pretty much a guaranteed failure, as the Spanish and French both learned in the Nineteenth Century.

I always thought one of the most intriguing ideas being kicked around in Mexico City in 1848 was Scott as (essentially) an "invited" chief executive over what would have amounted to a trusteeship for four or eight years.

That one potentially has some huge ripples, and the really interesting element is they are (potentially) positive for both Mexico and the United States.

Best,
 
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