An Alternate Battle of the Coral Sea

  • The basis of this thread is simple Coral Sea goes significantly better for the Allies than otl. In essence the following happens.
  • The strike on Shoho's group is done in a more logical method which results in the wasted attack(the damage inflicted by Lexington's planes would have sunk Shoho and by Japanese accounts Yorktown's planes added another 11 1000lb bomb and 2 torpedoes hits to Lexington's 2 1000lb bombs and 5 torpedo hits...on a light carrier) by Yorktown's aircraft with said aircraft being directed at the 4 covering heavy cruisers and the sole Japanese destroyer. This results in the following
  • The IJN Sazanami is hit by a strafing Wildcat in its depth charges/torpedoes and blows up.
  • The IJN Aoba is hit by 2 1000lb bombs in the engine rooms and as a result she is later scuttled.
  • The IJN Kinugasa is hit by a torpedo and 2 1000lb bombs and will later sink on the way back to Rabaul.
Another major change in the battle is the fate of the USS Sims and the USS Neosho. While they are spoted as per otl with the same strike package sent out to sink them they are protected by a major squal which prevents them from being spotted and thus attacked.

The last major change from otl is the survival of the Lexington. She takes similar damage but in slightly different locations which result in the bulk of the avation fuel tanks breached otl not being breached and the damage ironically vents the ship of the fumes.
Now how does this change the rest of 1942?

Assume that Midway plays out the same as otl with exception of Yorktown surviving due to the destroyers protecting her while she's being salavaged not falling asleep at the wheel and sinking the I-168 before she torpedoes Yorktown and Hammann.
 
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There could be butterflies. Its an obvious Japanese defeat, and their multi task force strategy, with decoys, didn't work at all. Perhaps they change their Midway plans????

OR perhaps it just leads to an earlier Japanese defeat at Guadalcanal, or the Japanese just concede the island.
 
There could be butterflies. Its an obvious Japanese defeat, and their multi task force strategy, with decoys, didn't work at all. Perhaps they change their Midway plans????

OR perhaps it just leads to an earlier Japanese defeat at Guadalcanal, or the Japanese just concede the island.
Do note that Midway plays out as per otl with the exception of the I-168 getting lucky.
 

Driftless

Donor
Might the Japanese be even more concerned about growing American naval strength and double-down on forcing Midway, or somewhere else(Solomons, New Guinea, Darwin, etc)
 
There could be butterflies. Its an obvious Japanese defeat, and their multi task force strategy, with decoys, didn't work at all. Perhaps they change their Midway plans????

OR perhaps it just leads to an earlier Japanese defeat at Guadalcanal, or the Japanese just concede the island.
The IJN thought that they had sunk both Lexington and Yorktown at Coral Sea otl and I see no reason for this to change.
 
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SsgtC

Banned
The last major change from otl is the survival of the Lexington. She takes similar damage but in slightly different locations which result in the bulk of the avation fuel tanks breached otl not being breached and the damage ironically vents the ship of the fumes.
Now how does this change the rest of 1942?
This could have bad butterflies for the USN. IIRC, Lexington was lost because of a faulty damage control procedure. Her loss twigged the USN onto it and the procedure was changed. Without that lesson, the Navy may end up losing more carriers later in the war
 
The IJN thought that they had sunk both Lexington and Yorktown at Coral Sea otl and I see no reason for this to change.
Then Lexington and Yorktown at Eastern Solomons and/or Santa Cruz could be decisive, if Shokaku or Zuikaku is sunk. Not sure the effect of the lost Japanese cruisers.
 
This could have bad butterflies for the USN. IIRC, Lexington was lost because of a faulty damage control procedure. Her loss twigged the USN onto it and the procedure was changed. Without that lesson, the Navy may end up losing more carriers later in the war
Hmmm maybe have the Lexington be damaged in such a way to vent the ship of the gas fumes but allow the USN to see the danger of what almost occurred and thus make the needed changes.
 
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Then Lexington and Yorktown at Eastern Solomons and/or Santa Cruz could be decisive, if Shokaku or Zuikaku is sunk. Not sure the effect of the lost Japanese cruisers.
If Yorktown survives Midway she's not available till December at the earliest due to her rather extensive damage...plus the USN would upgrade her probably with torpedo bulges that Enterprise got in 1943, and the Lexington would probably be modernized like the Saratoga but she might be available for Santa Cruz, the real game changer is if Hornet gets released from covering Hawaii early and goes South with Fletcher's 3 carriers at the start of Watchtower because of Nimitz having a carrier reserve, which makes the Eastern Solomons interesting . Neosho surviving also might result in Wasp being around during said battle.
 
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If Yorktown survives Midway she's not available till December at the earliest due to her rather extensive damage...plus the USN would upgrade her probably with torpedo bulges that Enterprise got in 1943, and the Lexington would probably be modernized like the Saratoga but she might be available for Santa Cruz, the real game changer is if Hornet gets released from covering Hawaii early and goes South with Fletcher's 3 carriers at the start of Watchtower because of Nimitz having a carrier reserve, which makes the Eastern Solomons interesting . Neosho surviving also might result in Wasp being around during said battle.

I agree on that first point. If Yorktown survives Midway she probably goes to the west coast to get the refit Enterprise got in 1943. Lexington will at some point get the same modernization Saratoga got but probably later as I don't see Nimitz putting two carriers in long term refit unless he has to.
 
I agree on that first point. If Yorktown survives Midway she probably goes to the west coast to get the refit Enterprise got in 1943. Lexington will at some point get the same modernization Saratoga got but probably later as I don't see Nimitz putting two carriers in long term refit unless he has to.

With the Damage that Lexington received she would probably be sent back to the West Coast to repair the damage and upgrade her right away. Depending on how bad Yorktown is she may get another 'quick repair' (but not as quick as the one between Coral Sea and Midway) to keep her available at least as a reserve carrier until Lexington comes back.
 
I agree on that first point. If Yorktown survives Midway she probably goes to the west coast to get the refit Enterprise got in 1943. Lexington will at some point get the same modernization Saratoga got but probably later as I don't see Nimitz putting two carriers in long term refit unless he has to.
In all honesty considering the damage Lexington took it might not save that much time. Saratoga for example took 105 days to modernize(Febuary 9th to May 22nd) . For comparison Yorktown pre Midway was estimated to require 90 days to fully repair. So I don't see huge savings of time from not upgrading Lexington and lots of potential downsides.
 
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With the Damage that Lexington received she would probably be sent back to the West Coast to repair the damage and upgrade her right away. Depending on how bad Yorktown is she may get another 'quick repair' (but not as quick as the one between Coral Sea and Midway) to keep her available at least as a reserve carrier until Lexington comes back.
In essence the Yorktown is in her pre I-168 state and thus is towed back to Pearl,she's not leaving the yard before November at the earliest and its more than likely she won't be on the frontlines until early 1943.
 
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I honestly don’t buy the 90 days for Yorktown post Coral Sea. Enterprise was a lot more heavily damaged after Eastern Solomons and she needed 36 days in PH to get fully repaired with some significant upgrades like 40mm bofors guns.
 

SsgtC

Banned
I honestly don’t buy the 90 days for Yorktown post Coral Sea. Enterprise was a lot more heavily damaged after Eastern Solomons and she needed 36 days in PH to get fully repaired with some significant upgrades like 40mm bofors guns.
Could the 90 days estimate have included upgrades and an overhaul in addition to repairs?
 
I honestly don’t buy the 90 days for Yorktown post Coral Sea. Enterprise was a lot more heavily damaged after Eastern Solomons and she needed 36 days in PH to get fully repaired with some significant upgrades like 40mm bofors guns.
Nonetheless with 2 torpedo and 2 bomb hits I really doubt the Lexington will not get her upgrade since she's far more damaged than Saratoga when she was torpedoed in January and Nimitz has 4 active carriers in the form of Wasp,Saratoga,Hornet, and Enterprise and even with Neosho surviving Coral Sea he still has a oiler shortage especially fast oilers to support them. As for the Enterprise's rapid repair post Eastern Solomons...maybe Nimitz needed her so badly that he had the yard put say three quarters of the resources manpower and material wise he had them use to patch up the Yorktown pre Midway, I don't know will inquire further as a result
 
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Nonetheless with 2 torpedo and 2 bomb hits I really doubt the Lexington will not get her upgrade since she's far more damaged than Saratoga when she was torpedoed in January and he has 4 active carriers in the form of Wasp,Saratoga,Hornet, and Enterprise and even with Neosho surviving Coral Sea he still has a oiler shortage especially fast oilers to support them. As for the Enterprise's rapid repair post Eastern Solomons...maybe Nimitz needed her so badly that he had the yard put say three quarters of the resources manpower and material wise he had them use to patch up the Yorktown pre Midway, I don't know will inquire further as a result

I agree, Lexington will go to the west coast for a full blown refit.
 

SsgtC

Banned
There's a couple other butterflies too. CV-10 will not be renamed Yorktown ITTL. She'll retain her name of Bon Homme Richard. While CV-16 will not become Lexington, but will remain as Cabot
 
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Driftless

Donor
Possibly, or just as likely that it was a WAG someone tossed out when they first looked at her and it has since entered popular mythology.

Lt. Cmdr Scott: Cap'n, it'll take at least 72 hours to cobble her together....
Captain Kirk: Scotty, you've got 20 minutes.....


Admiral Nimitz: Patch the holes in the hull to keep the sea out, patch the holes in the flight deck and hanger deck to keep the planes upright, and worry about the rest later..... We have a war to win....
 
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