An Age of Prosperity

Where should the Capital of Dania be located


  • Total voters
    45
If the kings wanna keep northern Germany I think they're gonna need to be close to it. Somewhere in Holstein on the west coast might do it, perhaps Kiel.
 
During early times the King and retinue would travel the lands living of it as going by. That in itself could lend to several Residensbyer/residential cities being chosen for the King and only at some time when the archives get too unwieldy to travel would a permanent residence have to become a capital. As in the case of the Netherlands you could have a capital and a governmental seat.
Before modern communications the sea would provide the highway so the capital or government seat should possibly be in the Oeresund Region which would also be the Naval HQ later to defend the approaches to Our Sea!
As I have pointed to at other times Denmark have had a choice of ships or horses - either you keep the Army where the Navy may support it or transport it or you get a decent continental Army. Denmark doesn't initially need the Army but definitely the Navy - it was instrumental. However when enough territory have been added to the demesne an Army will be needed for defences and defeating troublesome neighbors. You did show that in the original TL.
That way you could have a land defences Residensby in Slesvig or Holsten - Naval Base at Copenhagen or Landscrone (Lands crown!) and possibly one or two more around. One in Pommern at least.
The system would also make for a ready base when troubles comes around with administration and military depot as well as finances at hand. This way you will be able to postpone the fixing of Capital giving more freedom in choosing; that way any coreland Denmark - Sweden - Norway will be a possible though with the central sea it will be Denmark or Sweden so as to keep the connection to the roots of origin.

About the Nation developing its distinct culture; if you are open to it the TL may unfold this on its own is my experience. When you begin tampering with history odd unexpected stuff seems to happen. :)
 
If the kings wanna keep northern Germany I think they're gonna need to be close to it.

So I think it is important to note that using northern Germany in this time 12-13th century is... its not a false statement, but the situation is complicated, certainly when we get into the reign of Valdemar II what is now northern Germany and Poland is either a vassal to the HRE or to Denmark. And the Ostseidlung is first starting to make these areas German, a process that is going on.

Somewhere in Holstein on the west coast might do it, perhaps Kiel.

Kiel is located on the eastern coast ;) I think the west coast is too remote, it makes little sense in the wider scope.

Now I am gonna take a guess and suspect you meant the east coast, Kiel is certainly a valid candidate.. except it does not exist yet. Certainly, the position is gonna lend itself to a city of prominence. A good bet would likely be Slesvig if we're talking those areas.

During early times the King and retinue would travel the lands living of it as going by. That in itself could lend to several Residensbyer/residential cities being chosen for the King and only at some time when the archives get too unwieldy to travel would a permanent residence have to become a capital.
Yep some cities/castles seem to have some significant claims to being a "de facto" capital, Nyborg on Fyn is known to have several Dane Hof [Danish court literally] placed there. Vordingborg is of course singificant that both Valdemar I and Valdemar II seem to have favored it. While Knud VI seems to have spent much time in Åbosyssel in Eastern Jutland which could point towards either Skanderborg or Aarhus.

If I remember correct the royal archive was placed in Vordingborg when it got too unwieldy it was first later it was moved to Copenhagen, but this is later than the Valdemars

s in the case of the Netherlands you could have a capital and a governmental seat.
Yea I was hinting of that in the old timeline towards Copenhagen as capital and Slangerup as resident area, but more in a versaille way.. yet not :p

Before modern communications the sea would provide the highway so the capital or government seat should possibly be in the Oeresund Region which would also be the Naval HQ later to defend the approaches to Our Sea!
I agree the capital have to be at sea, with one candidate not at the sea Lund !

While I disagree that Øresund is the only place that is suited for this, I also see the poll that I put up..

@Sian I fear we have been outvoted (I did not vote myself) and I fear I am not a strong man and bend due to pressure, so we will in all likelyhood see a capital located at the Øresund, just have to decide where.

As I have pointed to at other times Denmark have had a choice of ships or horses - either you keep the Army where the Navy may support it or transport it or you get a decent continental Army. Denmark doesn't initially need the Army but definitely the Navy - it was instrumental. However when enough territory have been added to the demesne an Army will be needed for defences and defeating troublesome neighbors. You did show that in the original TL.

Actually, interestingly enough, we're already seeing this shift from navy towards the army, likely due to the continued conflict that Denmark came into with the HRE during this period. Valdemar I, Knud VI and Valdemar II all strengthened the army and Valdemar I did it while weakening the navy.

So what we're likely gonna see is this continued escalating of the power of the army while the navy to a degree is forgotten.
This can be done because Denmark in the period will be lacking any real opponents on the sea. As soon as those appear in later periods the Navy will again become a focal point.


That way you could have a land defences Residensby in Slesvig or Holsten - Naval Base at Copenhagen or Landscrone (Lands crown!) and possibly one or two more around. One in Pommern at least.
The system would also make for a ready base when troubles comes around with administration and military depot as well as finances at hand. This way you will be able to postpone the fixing of Capital giving more freedom in choosing; that way any coreland Denmark - Sweden - Norway will be a possible though with the central sea it will be Denmark or Sweden so as to keep the connection to the roots of origin.
Yea we have to see, I do like the idea about Landskrona becoming prominent (I like the name). Now if Copenhagen becomes capital, as in my old version of the TL, I might just do it under another name. I don't why, maybe because Copenhagen is such a dominant city in OTL Denmark. I am after all a filthy Jyde, and probably wanna throw some shade at Copenhagen ;)

About the Nation developing its distinct culture; if you are open to it the TL may unfold this on its own is my experience. When you begin tampering with history odd unexpected stuff seems to happen.

Oh yea it certainly happened in the original TL, what I wanna do now is add something specifik that will help it along, and furthermore I wanna make the TL (which I know is wankish) a bit more realistic by adding some trouble.
 
So early on you could have the Residence city to be located at Rendsburg/Ratzeburg or some such which would aid in the land based conquest's though the leidang/leding fleet would help on the Baltic shore. Slesvig is still Danish territory so Rendburg would be an acceptable choice early on. You'd like it inland to guard from assault and control the Oxenroad/Hærvej for logistics.

You would need something to turn up to take away the preoccupation with the land war. Some Naval incursion from the West of course though perhaps something different like you seem to have nipped the Hanse in the butt. Something else may appear like the Dutch - English - Scottish - Norwegians wanting their share of the trade coming through Russia into the Baltic.
Its a bit like the Arabs arrive and block trade from the East into the Med which forces trade north along the Russian rivers to Novgorod and the Baltic then carried to the West. With the Crusades the road to the East opens once more necessiating something big happening if this should happen early. Seems you are not going for this though! :)
 
If a problem with Kiel being that it doesn't exist yet then the same goes for Landskrona, it doesn't become a city before the early 15th century iotl, though some other city could spring up there.

At the end of the day, the Pomeranian coast is difficult to defend, even more so if it's seperated from the main center of power by water. If Dania hopes to keep this region it will need to be able to react to intrusions there quickly.
 

Big Smoke

Banned
With a more Southern-oriented Denmark I think the capital shouldnt be in Skane and should be in the islands since these are the most central part of the strait and thus the Danish realm in general.
 
Prologue III
Prologue III: Knud VI. 1182-1202

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Seal of Knud VI. likely stems from 1190-1200, first ever evidence of the Danish coat of arms. It was found in the archives of Schwerin in 1879

It is sometimes incorrectly thought that Valdemar II. became king after his father’s death in 1182. In fact, Valdemar II. was not the eldest son and had not been chosen as his father successor. His elder brother, Knud VI. had in fact from a young age been acknowledged as a co-king of eastern Denmark.[1]

The reason for this, sometimes unsung, Danish King is not because little of note happened, on the contrary. But probably due to Knud being overshadowed by other people during his time on the throne.

Undeniable when Knud became sole king of Denmark at the age of 19, the Kingdom had taken a position of strength in Northern Europe, a fact that would only be further increased during his reign. His father’s marriage with the beautiful, but apparantly cruel Sophie of Minsk [2] had left several children; six daughters and two sons.

It is unknown who the power was between most of the strategic marriages that took effect for Knud’s sisters during his reign, but it would eventually encompass a Queen of France, a Queen of Sweden, a Countess and a Duchess of respectively Weimar-Orlamünde and Lüneburg. There was, furthermore, a betrothal to one of the Emperor’s sons, but this was later canceled.

Knud himself married a daughter of Henry the Lion, a match planned by his father. Probably the only one that escaped the machinations of these marriage alliances during this period was his younger brother, which at the death of Valdemar I, became the Duke of Sønderjylland.

The first immediate concern for Knud VI. was not the marriages of all his sisters but rebellion. A peasant revolt rose up in Eastern Denmark, in opposition to reforms made by Archbishop Absalon. Though the nobility of Eastern Denmark likely managed to defeat the rebellion before Knud managed to gather his levies, nonetheless the official end to the rebellion was the defeat of the last remnants of the peasant rebellion at the battle of Lumme Å where Knud VI. participated.

The next crises happened just two years into his (yet) short reign. Knud’s grandfather, the Saint Knud Lavard was the first Duke of Sønderjylland [3] but had also acquired the title of Duke of Holstein being both a Danish vassal, but also a vassal of the Emperor. Furthermore, it is also likely that Valdemar I. had acknowledged Frederik Barbarossa as his overlord.

Frederik Barbarossa sent a messenger to Knud demanding that he acknowledged the Emperor as his liege. Yet Knud (likely on the advice of Archbishop Absalon) refused to do so. This refusal would have two immediate consequences the cancelation of the betrothal of one of Knuds sisters to one of the sons of the Emperor, and war.

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One of the many statues of Archbishop Absalon. Absalon plays a crucial role during his lifetime not only as the spiritual leader of Denmark in his position as first Bishop of Roskilde but later as Archbishop of Lund. But also as a warrior due to the many wars and crusades he participated and led to the south. His legacy in many ways overshadows that of the King Knud VI.

Unable to participate himself, due to trouble in the south, Emperor Frederik Barbarossa ordered his vassal Duke Bogislaw of Pomerania to invade Denmark. Knud VI. himself was in Jutland [4] at the time and the following naval victory over Pomerania was in the hands of the Archbishop Absalon.

Following the Danish victory at sea Knud would order two invasions of Pomerania and in relatively short span would subdue the Pomeranian lands and force Bogislaw to acknowledge Knud as his liege already in 1185. Danish kings have from that day titled themselves as Vendernes konge (King of the Wends)

It is then likely that instead of disbanding the army that conquered Pomerania Knud used it to intervene in a succession struggle in the nearby Duchy of Mecklenburg.

While the details are unknown, we know that Nicholas I, Prince of the Obotrite and Lord of Rostock was embroiled in a dynastic squabble with his cousin, Henry Borwin I, Prince of the Obotrite and Lord of Mecklenburg. Over the dominion of the entirety of the Duchy of Mecklenburg, a conflict that started in 1182 and ended three years later in 1285 due to Danish intervention.

Over the conflict, it must have become clear to both participants but also to the onlookers that the conflict between the two princes remained isolated. Despite alliance nets to the rest of the Empire, neither side saw help from potential allies due to wider issues in the Empire.

It is this situation that was exploited either by Knud VI. or Archbishop Absalon, by invading and intervening on the behalf of Nicholas I, eventually capturing Henry Borwin I and forcing both to acknowledge Knud VI as their Liege.

For the first roughly 5-10 years of Knud VI reign, Archbishop Absalon seems to have been the driving force behind the throne, and many of the events that happened during these early years are credited to the Archbishop.

In 1187 Knud VI's brother took control of the Duchy of Sønderjylland, the previous years it had been ruled by his regent Bishop Valdemar of Slesvig, an illegitimate son of Knud IV of Denmark.

These two Valdemar’s the Duke and Bishop played a central role in the latter years of Knud VI’s reign. Early on the two were able to work together and in union invaded and conquered the Dithmarshen region on the duchy’s southern border, a territory nominally belonging to the Archbishop of Bremen, but which had a peasant republic in place.

The relationship between the two Valdemar’s would sour in 1192, either over Dithmarshen or the way Bishop Valdemar led his diocese.

This lead to Duke Valdemar confiscating estates from the Bishop, which then likely fled into exile the same year. Likewise in 1192 in his exile the Bishop was elected by the Bremen chapter unauthorizedly as the new Prince-Archbishop of Bremen.

Prince-Archbishop Valdemar in an alliance with the newly returned from the Crusades, Count of Holstein, Adolf III. invaded by ship the Jutlandic territories controlled by Knud VI. in 1192 in a bid from the Prince-Archbishop to claim the Danish throne.

Ultimately the invasion was short-lived already by 1193 the invasion had been defeated either by Duke Valdemar or King Knud VI. Resulting in the capture of the Prince-Archbishop and his imprisonment for the next 13 years, first under the guardianship of Duke Valdemar at Nordborg for the first five years, and later in Søborg for the remaining years.

Adolf III. would go on to participate in the crusading business, once again, and first returned to his land between 1197 and 1200 as a conflict between the Count of Holstein and the King of Denmark broke out on Rygen. [5]

Ultimately this war led to Danish triumph on several fronts, in the east the two Obotrite princes Nicholas I, Lord of Rostock and Henry Borwin I. Lord of Mecklenburg invaded the territory of Adolf and defeated either Adolf himself or forces loyal to him in the battle of Waschow in the County of Ratzeburg.

The battle of Waschow saw the death of Nicholas I. resulting in the Lordship of Rostock returning into the hands of Henry Borwin I.

In the north Duke Valdemar invaded Holstein with his own army and it would be this trust into the territory of Adolf III. that would be the final one, in 1201 the battle of Stellau, north of Hamburg was fought. While the sources conflict about the victors of this battle, what is certain is that Adolf, either retreated to Hamburg or returned to it following the battle.

Duke Valdemar after the battle of Stellau besieged the city of Hamburg, and if the sources are to be believed, assaulted the city in a daring Christmas attack that resulted in the conquest of the city and the capture of Count Adolf.

Following this triumph, Duke Valdemar added Holstein and Hamburg to his domains of Sønderjylland and Dithmarschen, while Knud VI. added Ratzeburg and Lybæk to his own.

In 1202, the following year, the now 39-year old Danish king, after 20 years on the Danish throne suddenly fell ill and died, being childless he left no chosen heir.

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The extent of Knud VI's realm just before his death in 1202

While the reign of Knud certainly is dominated by conflicts in and with the Empire, like his father he reformed the Kingdom, though Archbishop Absalon, as ever, is certainly present in these reforms too.

Early on in his reign Absalon and Knud strengthened the Royal Hird, while the exact details are relatively unknown. The Royal hird, unlike the Ledding reforms of Valdemar I. revolved around the aristocratic elements of the realm. [6]

The other reform which is also co-signed by Archbishop Absalon happened in the latter years of his reign was compared to his early on, a peaceful one, it sharpened the laws against violent crimes and are on the whole uninteresting.


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[1] relative common happenstance in the early Danish monarchy, this was to secure the succession in what was otherwise an elective monarchy.

[2] While her exact origin is unknown, we know she was the daughter of Richeza of Poland, Dowager Queen of Sweden, from her second a man called Valador King in Poloni lands, a figure that is forgotten to history. Nonetheless, the “of Minsk” title is a bit misleading, the marriage seems to be one of an alliance of sorts towards Sweden and Sophia of Minsk herself spent several years of her childhood in Denmark.

[3] when Knud Lavard got the fief of Sønderjylland it was as a Jarl, it is likely Knud Lavard adopted the title Duke, due to his interest in the chivalric ideals of the time.

[4] Denmark did not have capital at this time, Valdemar I spent most of his time in the castle of Vordingborg, Knud VI. seems to have spent considerable time in Åbosyssel in eastern Jutland, maybe the town/city of Arus (modern-day Aarhus)

[5] the war between Knud VI and Adolf III might be a part of the greater conflict between the candidates to the Imperial throne Philip of Swabia and Otto IV

[6] This reform might not only have strengthened the royal hird but might very well have reinstituted it. What is known is that the reform spanned the entire realm and that it increased both the size and discipline of the Royal Hird. There is mention of 62 brotherhoods [direct translation] in Jutland and the isles (no mention of Skåne, so this number of 62 is not telling much really) in Kong Valdemars Jordebog is Knud VI. himself named as part of one of these brotherhoods stemming from Åbosyssel (eastern Jutland).

One can make a guess towards this being a step towards the strengthening of the aristocracy of Denmark. Valdemar II is noted for relying more on the nobility and the levies they can raise. Rather than the peasant forces of the ledding system.

Even then he surely used both as the ledding participated in the crusade in 1219 towards Estonia.

Denmark is in a weird position militarily where it both relies on the systems of old and the more “modern” feudal systems and how it exactly worked is not known.

This mention of Åbosyssel is maybe again a hint towards there being a “royal resident” of Knud VI. It further might suggest why Adolf III and Prince-Archbishop Valdemar invaded Northern Jutland and not Sønderjylland [Southern Jutland] which bordered the territory of Adolf III.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alrighto the last prologue is up, next up Valdemar II which will include the PoD.
So yea this all happened OTL though I might have some details wrong.

I got about twice as long as I expected and I know it is a bit of information dumb..

Anyways Happy New Years ;)
 
Prologue IV
Prologue IV: Valdemar II.

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Valdemar II. on the Kongefrise [Kingsfrieze] in the Abbey of Ringsted, where the royalty of Denmark is buried. This particular image is a part of bigger on showing Valdemar I. Knud VI. Valdemar II. and Valdemar III. central figures in the northern crusades and the establishment of Denmark as a major power in Europe.

Valdemar as the second son had likely not expected to become King in his early days, though with his brother staying childless and eventual early death in 1202, meant that he was the obvious choice for the Kingship.

His father, Valdemar I. had secured his sons (Knud VI.) inheritance by electing him as co-king early in his reign. Valdemar II. had no such thing done to him. Yet what could have ended up with civil war due to the elective nature of the Danish Kingdom, did not happen.

While both Valdemar I. and Knud VI. Had internal problems early in their reigns. Valdemar II. Which had a more dubious claim to the throne than either of the above, had none.

Now there were several redeeming features for this. Both of Valdemar’s brothers where dead (the previous king and an older illegitimate half-brother) neither had children. Furthermore, the biggest pretender from older royal lines sat imprisoned in Denmark, due to his earlier unsuccessful attempt to claim the Danish throne (Bishop Valdemar of Slesvig).

Valdemar II. Had also proven himself as an able leader, with him having experience as Duke of Sønderjylland. All in all, what could have been a problematic situation with an unclear succession. Became a mere footnote in history as Valdemar II. was crowned King in the cathedral of Lund the 25th of December in 1202 by the new Archbishop of Lund Anders Sunesen[1]

With his coronation the lands that Valdemar II. had held as Duke was once again integrated into the Kingdom, Valdemar II. appointed his nephew Albert of Orlamünde as the governor of the two counties of Holstein and Ratzeburg.

Throughout his life and as first Duke of Sønderjylland and eventually King of Denmark, Valdemar II. spent considerable time on campaigns. It is a testimony to the internal strength and prosperity of the Kingdom, that it was capable of sustaining this. Especially considering both Knud VI. And Valdemar I. had also spent considerable time using warfare as a means to extend Danish influence in neighboring lands.

Valdemar II’s first campaign as King of Denmark, was to meddle in the affairs of the Kingdom of Norway, Norway had since 1130 been in a state of perpetual civil war over the throne. In 1204 a certain Håkon Sverresson appeared to have pacified Norway during the previous two years. But suddenly died.

This left the throne to the infant son of Håkon Sverreson, a certain Guttom. Guttorm as many infants did before modern medicine died himself the same year. Leaving the throne, once again, in dispute.

The followers of Håkon Sverreson, the Birkebeiner faction, backed a cousin of the old king, a man by the name Inge Bårdson. But with the untimely death of the two previous kings, another faction emerged in Norway.

The so-called Bagler faction had formed in Denmark around another candidate to the Norwegian throne, Erling Stonewall. Supported by Denmark he invaded and conquered the southern parts of the Norwegian Kingdom, an area known as Viken. [2]

The so-called Second Bagler War lasted between 1204 and 1208, and in the grand scheme of things an inconclusive war. Erling Stonewall died during the conflict in the year 1207. But the Bagler faction simply chose another candidate. Ignoring the two infant sons of Erling Stonewall, they elected to support another pretender, Philip Simonsson.

The war ended in 1208 due to the bishops of Norway being able to come to a settlement between the two claimants.

Philip Simonssen gave up his title of King of Norway but kept his lands in Viken. And Inge Bårdson became the sole ruler of Norway. Nonetheless, he was likely unable to wield any influence over Viken and Philip Simonssen, which probably acknowledged the Danish King Valdemar II. as his new liege lord.

In local legends, Erling Stonewall arrived in Norway from Denmark, at the head of 300 Danish ships.

Valdemar II. did not participate in the campaign himself, as other important events happened during these years in Denmark and in the south.

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Young Håkon Håkonsson being transported to safety by the Birkebeiner faction. painted in 1869 by Knud Bergslien. Håkon Håkonsson would never sit on the throne of Norway due to the successes of the Danish backed Bagler faction. Nonetheless, he played an important part in ending the 100-years of civil war of Norway and rules as King in the city of Bergen.

When Valdemar II. acquired the Danish throne he remained unmarried and had no trueborn children. At his death in 1241 he had sired two daughters and 6 sons. His first children where three illegitimate children.

Respectively Niels Valdemarsen, who would play an important role in the Saxon rebellion, even after his death, born to an unknown woman and Knud Valdemarsen, who as tradition dictates, being a son of a king, ruled the lands of Reval and Estland on behest of his father. His own sons would go on to rule these lands for generations as heritable fiefs.

Knud Valdemarsen furthermore had an older sister, and while her faith is unknown, we know she was named Margrethe, though likely she died before she came of age. [3] The mother of the two, Margrethe and Knud was the widow of Esben Snare, the brother of Archbishop Absalon. She came from Sweden being the daughter of one of the jarls there.

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Another piece of art from Ringsted Abbey, this is of Dagmar, the first wife of Valdemar II. a historical beloved Queen of Denmark, yet little is known of her. She bore Valdemar II. a single son, the further Valdemar III.

The relationship between Valdemar II. and his Royal mistress was terminated in 1205 when he agreed to marry Dagmar of Bohemia. The daughter of Ottokar I. of Bohemia. One son Dagmar would bear Valdemar II. named Valdemar in 1209.

Dagmar, seemingly beloved by the Danish people died just 7-years after she was married to the Danish King in Lybæk. Together with a second son while giving birth.

History presents Dagmar as the ideal Christian Queen, mild, patient and loved by the people. Nonetheless little is known of her actual character. It is likely this image is conjured due to the unpopularity of her successor Berengária of Portugal.

In legends before her death, she begged the king, to marry Kirsten a daughter of Karl von Rise and not Berengária of Portugal. Predicting the struggle that the issues of Berengária of Portugal would give her own son.

[1] Ander Sunesen belonged to the Hvide clan, being a close relative to Archbishop Absalon, which have played such a central role the previous years.

Ander Sunesen was the son of Sune Ebbesen a cousin of Absalon.

[2] the area around modern-day Oslo.

[3] the sister of Knud Valdemarsen is an unknown figure in Danish history, we know their mother Helena Guttormdotter, was from Sweden and was a part of the nobility. Helena was married to Esbern Snare, a powerful Danish noble, and after his death became the royal mistress in 1204, a relationship that was terminated in 1205 when Valdemar marriage Dagmar of Bohemia.

While the logistics of the relationship that lasted between 1204-1205 is unknown, history dictate that the result was two illegitimate children an unknown daughter, and Knud, Duke of Estonia, which was born in 1205.

Due to the supposedly flourishing of Danish culture in the TL. I’ve decided to give the unknown daughter a name. To show how in this TL. The history of Denmark is more detailed and more importantly better preserved.

The interesting part is of course that Knud the bastard son of Valdemar, have ties to the Hvide Clan due to his older half-sister being the daughter of Esbern snare (who belonged to the Hvide Family.)

It is kind of hidden, but I think the sheer amount of influence the Hvide Family have during this period is not accurately described in history. They have ties to many influential people and sit on many of the highest positions in the Kingdom. More importantly, they seem to be loyal.

One can speculate what happened to the Hvide family in later periods, it seemingly died out before the use of noble family names became a thing in Denmark.
 
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So this was actually supposed to have the POD in it too, but I only got 2/5 historical things written down before I put it up.

While this all happened historically I've added some hints towards after-POD events. such as Valdemar III. who died in a hunting accident before the death of his father, as such, he never became King.

It took some time to write this, as I tried several times to dump it down to a few paragraphs each, but in the end, I decided to just put up another Prologue chapter.

I have repeatedly mentioned the Hvide Clan/Family in these last four chapters, the more I look into the history during this area, the more I realize how much influence they had. It is actually quite sobering. Lucky for the Valdemars they seem to share their view and are loyal. one of the three remaining points I want to write also has to do with the Hvide family so.

@Sian @arctic warrior @Jürgen I've been looking for literature specifically about the Hvide family but only been able to find stuff about Absalon. Do you folks have any suggestion for some information on this kinda enigmatic family and not just specific people like Absalon?

Next up, (hopefully) the POD.
 
Fine update - I didn't really notice the Hvide Klan in the previous ones - my bad.
The Hvide Klan - uuuuuhhh! They ruled Sjælland and as such were allowed to call up the Leidang of Sjælland!!!
You need to download the book Den hvide klan by Michael Kræmmer - quite an interesting read. Link https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ide_klan.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3QwasuxbWJwyer7ZV7S5Qt If you also look up their genealogy you notice they had quite a loss of leading male members during the Civil War of 1146-57 but were able to recover and take seat on the church and administration.
Skjalm Hvide led his own crusade with the Sjælland Leidang on the Vends 1100.
They were also married into both the Danish and Swedish royal line - Absalons sister Ingefred married Peder Pedersen Arn of Borup who was a descendant of Sven Estridson; Benedicte daughter of one of the Sunesons married king Sverker of Sweden.
By 1201 the Hvide Klan ran their private crusade in Estonia and to support Benedicte and king Sverker at least three of them were present at Lena 1208 where Benedictes father Ebbe and his brother Lars died while Jacob of Møn survived the battle.
Ingefred may be the sister that was killed by her husband and buried as having committed suicide because of which she had been buried on the beach at Køge. The Hvide male members aided bishop Absalon in getting at the truth upon which the bishop himself led the crowd to the beach were she under much celebration was exhumated and carried off to Roskilde for a burial in consecrated grounds; her soul being saved.

There seems to have been something called Viteslegt or such that would be Sjælland and the isles which would have been the demesne of the Hvide Klan; suffice to say it was immensely wealthy and powerful. If you married into the Klan you would be adopted as a full member - of course being expected to do your duty in times of need! It put a King on the Danish throne held the highest offices of the state and Church in Denmark and tried keeping a king on the Swedish throne.
And ran a few crusades on their own just to round it out.
You could say by using an English term that they were the Kingmakers of their times.

Why the male line die out by 1266 I don't know but there were sufficient cadet lines to keep the name running until their own battle with the king in 1286 and the continued fight with the successor.
 
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