An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Stark]

Just to be clear, I don't think it's unrealistic that Arles and Spain would oppose Roman annexation of Northern Italy. Losing some or all of gains through diplomatic conference would be completely reasonable, or even war if Romans would refuse to back down.

But the escalation from newspaper articles to straight up invasion is ridiculous. What do they have ambassadors for if not for telling Demetrios that annexation would mean war? And to clear up what are Roman goals, does Demetrios really support the newspaper jingoism?

And still, Romans on the far end of their logistical chain and far from their powerbase are much much much less of a threat than Triunes whose core territory borders Arles. And who, unlike Romans, have serious claims on Arles.

 

[HanEmpire]

I can see the Romans just looting everything they can from Northern Italy and evacuating the peninsula. Strip Rome of all of its cultural artifacts and deny the Latins any form of Roman heritage.

 

[Denliner]

I can see the Romans just looting everything they can from Northern Italy and evacuating the peninsula. Strip Rome of all of its cultural artifacts and deny the Latins any form of Roman heritage.

Romans razing Rome....? That'd be the ultimate humiliation even for ones that care more about Constantinople than the old Eternal City.

Historians might view that kind of event, on top of D3's final years as Emperor as the end of the current Imperial period (is it currently the Fifth or Sixth Empire...?) given how Rhomania has basically tanked in terms of economy, territory, and prestige due to a deluge of unfortunate events and general apathy of the Imperial government to be more proactive in foreign affairs.

 

[Basileus444]

Update Removed.

Revision to be posted when available.​

 

[Stark]

Also, some random note advocating breaking the terms of Treaty of Saluzzo by attacking Spain is followed by Spain actually breaking terms of Treaty of Saluzzo by starting a war?

First they attack Romans in the east because Triunes killed a spanish heir (weird but it happens), and now they break Treaty of Saluzzo and start a war in Europe because they read a newspaper article/note they didn't like? Not everything has to be pragmatic, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

Where was that note even published? Did it just circulate around or did some paper publish it?

 

[Denliner]

There's got to be some kind of motivation behind a future loss of Northern Italy besides Arles and Spain being incensed into war over a press scandal during the Early Modern Period, which definitely raised some eyebrows. The UK being pulled into the conflict probably pushed it into unrealistic territory since they were starting to become extremely powerful and Arles/Spain just accepted them swallowing up Lotharingia for an enemy that wasn't as threatening as the Triunes/Quadrunes/whatever.

It's fairly likely that the Romans will have to concede Northern Italy towards independence at some point since control is untenable and they'll face to deal with Aragon, Spain, Arles, or even the HRE eventually due to rising geopolitical tensions. At least central Italy like Tuscany and Rome could be reliably within Roman hands while Sicily isn't forced into unfavorable agreements to save its own skin with the reset.

 

[Stark]

Since I had three comments/rants regarding update, I want to say I love this timeline and Basileus's writing. Still, sometimes you have to nitpick.

 

[Babyrage]

I’m late to the party, what happened to the update?
Given the comments I’m going to assume it was controversial. Regardless I should reiterate my appreciation to B444 for writing something that has gotten so many people so invested.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Since I had three comments/rants regarding update, I want to say I love this timeline and Basileus's writing. Still, sometimes you have to nitpick.

I would like to second this, since I don't want to come across as a bully and/or hater. Still love this timeline, but like, I legit had to decompress and revise my post twice, like, its a discussion forum not a berating forum

 

[E_x_c_u_b_i_t_o_r_e]

Ok, pls forgive my rant but based from what I've just read, it seems to me that "All of Rome's enemies and close vicinity allies" are basically the A.I's of Rome Total War Attila. NO MATTER what the Romans do they'll always be fucking "hated", and "no amount" of diplomacy will help their situation. Jeez I think this is even worse than the Russia/USSR OTL situation where they were the pariah around the majority of the world.

Also would like to add that I extremely hate that Ody's victory on the future will essentially "disappear", all because of another f******* ISKANDER. What was the point of any Roman victory if all those gains will essentially be lost? Syria-Palestina will also become a despotate like wtf.... all those Roman casualties for nothing. All their holdings will pretty much be only on the balkans and anatolia. I for one will never understand the motion of giving up those lands, especially since the minorities update have stated that Greek Majority are living on those lands and to give it up just because of those problematic minorities is ......

I completely agree with @RogueTraderEnthusiast opinion, the last updates are more like how the Empire of the Romans fell as opposed to objective of this TTL. Christ whats the next update on how the empire fell? Revolutionary forces captures Constatinople and becomes a REPUBLIC???

Pls forgive me for my vulgar words and wordplay but I've never been more upset than any update.

 

[E_x_c_u_b_i_t_o_r_e]

I’m late to the party, what happened to the update?
Given the comments I’m going to assume it was controversial. Regardless I should reiterate my appreciation to B444 for writing something that has gotten so many people so invested.

Well basically all of Rome's neighbor became a [Rome Total War Attila A.I], which basically means all of them hate Rome for almost no good reason. Well to be precise they actually have no right to be mad at Rome at all.

 

[Blaze]

So this thread is now essentialy split between those who believe that a combination of roman incompetence, indifference, governamental paralysis , arrogant and self-righteous attitude eventually bited the rhomans hard and not without very, very good geopolitical reasons (with some flavour in the misture), and those to whom Rhomania did nothing wrong and the other nations should be thankfull that they are not the target of a rhoman armada just because they don´t like the way they protest.

In the end, Chaos rules

 

[Wolttaire]

ummm what happened in last update afaird to read it?

 

[Stark]

So this thread is now essentialy split between those who believe that a combination of roman incompetence, indifference, governamental paralysis , arrogant and self-righteous attitude eventually bited the rhomans hard and not without very, very good geopolitical reasons (with some flavour in the misture), and those to whom Rhomania did nothing wrong and the other nations should be thankfull that they are not the target of a rhoman armada just because they don´t like the way they protest.

In the end, Chaos rules

Very snarkily written. No, some argue that going to war in 17th century based mostly on newspaper clips is not very realistic and plausible. Especially when Roman actual actions amounted to very little (what did they do in Italy except being passive?) and when geopolitics don't really support imminent Roman hegemony that needs to stopped at all costs.

 

[ike225]

I love the story line and I'm interested how the story goes yet I understand the discontent with the newest update.

So this thread is now essentialy split between those who believe that a combination of roman incompetence, indifference, governamental paralysis , arrogant and self-righteous attitude eventually bited the rhomans hard and not without very, very good geopolitical reasons (with some flavour in the misture), and those to whom Rhomania did nothing wrong and the other nations should be thankfull that they are not the target of a rhoman armada just because they don´t like the way they protest.

The main problem is that while we can understand that the Roman government is busy somewhere else (financial problems, upcoming war with the Ottomans,...) they don't really have any plans concerning Northern Italy as stated in the previous post, what most of us don't understand is that how opinion pieces in newspapers are used for a pretext of war between Spain, Arlas, the League and the Empire. While there are ambassadors in the capitals of each nation that can be used to defuse the situation. Ignorance is one thing, while I understand D3 is ill and focused on the internal problems, Ody is probably focusing on war with the Ottomans, Athena would/should probably be the one who is informed of the growing discontent/concern of the western nations, and she should act on it, especially since she is being set up as the true ruler of the empire, or the one who focuses on the day to day running of the empire, while our beloved Ody will be happily and vengefully be waging war against the Ottomans (The War of Wrath)
This possible war just feels like a curb stomp on the Romans for reasons that shouldn't even be reasons. The Triunes should be focusing on Lotharingia and bringing the territory under control. Ottokar should be busy fixing the massive problems in the empire following the Roman War of Succession. The other nations should have seen what the empire can do considering it's been only a few years since the Roman gained an overwhelming victory.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

If rulers in this timeline are that sensitive to newspaper articles I shudder to see how they react to this timeline's version of Twitter...

 

[minifidel]

So this thread is now essentialy split between those who believe that a combination of roman incompetence, indifference, governamental paralysis , arrogant and self-righteous attitude eventually bited the rhomans hard and not without very, very good geopolitical reasons (with some flavour in the misture), and those to whom Rhomania did nothing wrong and the other nations should be thankfull that they are not the target of a rhoman armada just because they don´t like the way they protest.

In the end, Chaos rules

This is a bit unfair to the well-argued criticisms of a seemingly "forced" outcome. Like, war with Spain in the East and North Italy slipping from its grasp due to a combination of arrogance, other priorities and an exaggerated response from the Latin powers was already enough of a cavalcade of unforced errors and geopolitical comeuppance; the parts of Latin Europe that weren't involved in the War of Roman Succession deciding to also go to war with Rhomania just feels like dogpiling, and it happens after that war has ended instead of when Rhomanian armies were rampaging through North Italy in the first place.

 

[Blaze]

This is a bit unfair to the well-argued criticisms of a seemingly "forced" outcome. Like, war with Spain in the East and North Italy slipping from its grasp due to a combination of arrogance, other priorities and an exaggerated response from the Latin powers was already enough of a cavalcade of unforced errors and geopolitical comeuppance; the parts of Latin Europe that weren't involved in the War of Roman Succession deciding to also go to war with Rhomania just feels like dogpiling, and it happens after that war has ended instead of when Rhomanian armies were rampaging through North Italy in the first place.

Indeed, for me it also seemed forced, especially the Ottokar part and the amount of aid Henri II could provide, but also, retrospectally, many things in history were. These were several things that by themselves wouldn`t do anything, but together, they`re a different story (the Blood Note was hilarious, reminded me many guys in this thread when we had the war in the east). As for the Latin countries that joined now. Before we had D3 to calm things and assure that no occupation of Northern Italy, (the big no-no for the Accord) would happen and those countries were pretty pro-roman in the war. Now he is essentially gone and those who seem to run the show in his place (and we know they do not) are guys who want to destroy countries that were pro-roman, because they dared to have interests that are opposed to the hard-line of Rhome´s War-Hawks.

But instead i would suggest. In replacement of outright war. To directly support a Duke, sending an army to aid him, occupy northern italy and negotiate in a position of strength with support from the sicilians. If the rhomans are passive, they would accept the fait-accompli, if they do not, it just proves what the Accord Nations were afraid of.

 

[Frame]

If rulers in this timeline are that sensitive to newspaper articles I shudder to see how they react to this timeline's version of Twitter...

I would very much enjoy seeing Odysseus have a twitter account where he posts his dinosaur art

 

[Frame]

Perhaps I'm just a fanboy but to me it seems like the Latins just really wanted the Romans to get the fuck out of northern Italy and were looking for any excuse to do so and the newspapers seemed like a convenient reason for them to take action which makes sense to me