An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Frame]

@Basileus444 ok ok i know i ask too many questions but this is the last one before next update, promise, anywho Im curious about Montenegro ttl. Is it a serbian vassal? Who is currently ruling it? What is it's relation to Rhomania? Any other Random facts you're willing to throw my way? I totally get if you cant answer all of my questions i know I ask alot, Im just more a fan of this tl than I am of any other entertainment medium right now and my brain can't stop obsessing over it. Cheers

 

[Zachary Johnson]

I just got through reading the entire timeline start to finished on the original discussion thread if there is one thing I learned is that thread marks are a wonderful thing

 

[HanEmpire]

I just got through reading the entire timeline start to finished on the original discussion thread if there is one thing I learned is that thread marks are a wonderful thing

The original thread was before threadmarks were implemented on this site. You can find the edited and improved version of the earlier chapters on Basileus' Patreon.

 

[Frame]

Rhome needs to have a secure Italian Border and even if the Lombards(guess its just milan now) seem weak now they'll be a constant existential threat to Roman holdings in Italy, I think some sort of deal should be made to Partition it between the Bernese league and Arles. Partially to have then relax over the taking of Genoa and because they are largely passive twords Rome and have no loyalty to the Pope in Prague. I think this is essential if Rhome dosnt want a Latin army trying to retake the city of Rome every Generation or so. and as previously discussed I think it's essential for there to at least be a substantial greek population in the city of Rome in order to make it much more difficult for any latin power to fully retake it. The question of who is Rome needs to be answered by it's old heartland being unquestionably in Rhoman hands.

 

[Evilprodigy]

Rhome needs to have a secure Italian Border and even if the Lombards(guess its just milan now) seem weak now they'll be a constant existential threat to Roman holdings in Italy, I think some sort of deal should be made to Partition it between the Bernese league and Arles. Partially to have then relax over the taking of Genoa and because they are largely passive twords Rome and have no loyalty to the Pope in Prague. I think this is essential if Rhome dosnt want a Latin army trying to retake the city of Rome every Generation or so. and as previously discussed I think it's essential for there to at least be a substantial greek population in the city of Rome in order to make it much more difficult for any latin power to fully retake it. The question of who is Rome needs to be answered by it's old heartland being unquestionably in Rhoman hands.

The only thing approaching 'secure' borders in Italy would be to expand north towards the alps. The amount of territory that would need to be dealt with is quite large.

But you don't need to conquor to get secure borders. Rhome could just make Milan a puppet with a cousin on the throne or a economic satellite. Rhome does soft power pretty well and with both Genoa and Venice they could, through ownership of sea routes, make Milan subservient due to economic pressure. Maybe this war could result in some changes in Milanian politics to the betterment of Rhome so that Rhome's growth doesn't scare anyone who only cares about borders on a map.

Alternatively Rhome could just pull a Rome and have its borders be the traditional southern edge of Cisalpine Gaul. With Genoa, Pisa, and Florence in their control the mountainous border between the Po Valley and Liguria to Tuscany could suffice for a somewhat defensible boundary. It's not perfect, there is a great deal of passage opportunity on those lower mountains and the border is quite long, but at least it is a natural barrier to give a force multiplier and is easily accessible by sea from the Heartland. It doesn't really stop Milan from recovering and coming back though if they get their shit together but it's the best compromise between territorial expansion and secure borders that don't piss off the west as I can reasonably think of.

Or they could just act unreasonably and the consequences could make for an entertaining story. That's fun too.

 

[dusan989]

@Basileus444 ok ok i know i ask too many questions but this is the last one before next update, promise, anywho Im curious about Montenegro ttl. Is it a serbian vassal? Who is currently ruling it? What is it's relation to Rhomania? Any other Random facts you're willing to throw my way? I totally get if you cant answer all of my questions i know I ask alot, Im just more a fan of this tl than I am of any other entertainment medium right now and my brain can't stop obsessing over it. Cheers

There is a bit about it in this post https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ire-of-rhomania.352434/page-187#post-19185213

 

[Frame]

The only thing approaching 'secure' borders in Italy would be to expand north towards the alps. The amount of territory that would need to be dealt with is quite large.

But you don't need to conquor to get secure borders. Rhome could just make Milan a puppet with a cousin on the throne or a economic satellite. Rhome does soft power pretty well and with both Genoa and Venice they could, through ownership of sea routes, make Milan subservient due to economic pressure. Maybe this war could result in some changes in Milanian politics to the betterment of Rhome so that Rhome's growth doesn't scare anyone who only cares about borders on a map.

Alternatively Rhome could just pull a Rome and have its borders be the traditional southern edge of Cisalpine Gaul. With Genoa, Pisa, and Florence in their control the mountainous border between the Po Valley and Liguria to Tuscany could suffice for a somewhat defensible boundary. It's not perfect, there is a great deal of passage opportunity on those lower mountains and the border is quite long, but at least it is a natural barrier to give a force multiplier and is easily accessible by sea from the Heartland. It doesn't really stop Milan from recovering and coming back though if they get their shit together but it's the best compromise between territorial expansion and secure borders that don't piss off the west as I can reasonably think of.

Or they could just act unreasonably and the consequences could make for an entertaining story. That's fun too.

Perhaps they could try what they did with serbia and split it up into a bunch of small vassal states. Perhaps it'll work out better this time due to the geography making it hard for them to truly unify
Correction: northern italy is not nearly as covered with mountains as i thought it was

 

[Basileus444]

Oh I just want to say It's a good thing that the Hindu and Buddhist powers in SE Asia are thriving and pushing back Islam. They've always been a de-stabalizing element in the region. With this update I'm sure there won't be alot of social problems that plagues the SE Asia in the future.

I’m aiming for a more diverse world ITTL, since just looking at it from a storytelling perspective, the OTL course of ‘and then (nearly) everybody became Muslim’ gets a bit old. Not that Islam isn’t capable of embracing a wide range of diversity, but I find it much more fun to play around with a multi-religious landscape.

Does Port Orthodoxy or Port Catholicism exist ITTL to fill the religion power vacuum?

A custom which still exists in the autonomous Aceh, Southern Thailand and the whole of Brunei.

I wonder how many nations have founded East India Companies of their own.

There will be parts coming up, in looking at other areas of Island Asia, which take a look at Catholicism and Orthodoxy in the region.

I believe at this point I’ve only officially mentioned the Portuguese/Spanish one.

Is Oran still in Aragons hand or did the Marnanids snatch it back?

Have to admit I completely forgot about that. I’m just going to declare that the Marinids took it back at some point.

I know you aren't fond of maps but do you think we could get a quick scribble showing how far the greater constantinople area goes out? Does it spill out of the new walls? No worries if not i know you're busy guy

It hasn’t spread outside of the new walls, although it’s past the Theodosian. Plus there’s Galata/Pera as well as Chalcedon, which could be considered part of “Greater Constantinople”.

It's actually Khazaria-Siberia or for short just Khazaria, a russian state ruled by a branch of the Laskarids that until recently also controlled large swathes of Central Asia. I'm curious now do they have any connection to the Turkic Khazars or is their shared name a coincidence?

The Khazaria bit is to add some antiquarian flavor to boost the prestige of the kingdom. There’s no actual connection to the original Khazars.

This seems like a good audience to ask given the knowledge of a ton of posters here in this thread...can anyone recommend books on either the Ottoman rule in Greece and/or the Greek War of Independence? Don't know nearly enough about those topics.

I wish I could be of some help. I have just one book on the Greek War of Independence and nothing on Ottoman-era Greece, although I have one on Constantinople from 1453-1922.

@Basileus444 ok ok i know i ask too many questions but this is the last one before next update, promise, anywho Im curious about Montenegro ttl. Is it a serbian vassal? Who is currently ruling it? What is it's relation to Rhomania? Any other Random facts you're willing to throw my way? I totally get if you cant answer all of my questions i know I ask alot, Im just more a fan of this tl than I am of any other entertainment medium right now and my brain can't stop obsessing over it. Cheers

Montenegro exists as an independent state under the rule of a Prince-Bishop, however it is so tightly bound up with the Kingdom of Serbia that it is a de-facto vassal.


Northern Italy: I admit I’m not sure myself exactly how everything is going to play out (some things are decided though). But Rhomania can’t get its fingers too deep in there; balance-of-power dynamics apply to Constantinople as well.


General Announcement: The March 15th update is going to end up playing out similar to the one on the 5th. I don’t think I’ll have access to Internet that day so I’ll be posting it as a PDF on Patreon to be released on the fifteenth, while the regular update will come out on the forum when I have Internet access again.

 

[jkarr]

I'd love to see some vexillolgy and heraldry graphics of the world. Be interesting how they differ.

 

[Cryostorm]

I'd love to see some vexillolgy and heraldry graphics of the world. Be interesting how they differ.

If nothing else I think many of your Muslim nation's won't be using the star and crescent since it won't have the prestige of the Ottomans associated. They themselves only took the symbol as their national after conquering Constantinople, whose symbol had included the crescent moon.

 

[Frame]

I wonder what sort of flag they have in the empire of mexico i bet its some crazy shit due to having substantially more native influence ttl. Perhaps something like this

 

[Frame]

Hopefully the Aragonese can take back Oran with the help of Arles

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

This seems like a good audience to ask given the knowledge of a ton of posters here in this thread...can anyone recommend books on either the Ottoman rule in Greece and/or the Greek War of Independence? Don't know nearly enough about those topics.

There is a TL by EarlMarshal that would be a fount of knowledge.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

There is a TL by EarlMarshal that would be a fount of knowledge.

I will search for it and start reading it. Thanks!

 

[Christian]

An interesting thing about Rhomania is them seemingly always being up to date when it comes to military matters. I mean, I've read through most of the story, and I find myself surprised they haven't gotten the equivalent of Prussia's national humiliation during the Napoleonic Wars which prompted major reforms.

Any reason why they always manage to keep themselves from stagnating on that front?

 

[Evilprodigy]

An interesting thing about Rhomania is them seemingly always being up to date when it comes to military matters. I mean, I've read through most of the story, and I find myself surprised they haven't gotten the equivalent of Prussia's national humiliation during the Napoleonic Wars which prompted major reforms.

Any reason why they always manage to keep themselves from stagnating on that front?

Because they did get Prussia's national humiliation.

Rhomania is constantly always fighting east and west with that sort of existential threat hovering over them constantly. Things like the Time of Troubles and other, short term, losses see the Rhomans reform much like Prussia did after the Napoleonic Wars and much like France did during the Revolution. See the Demetrian Peace as a very recent example given the loss of territory.

Unlike Prussia, who basically always won until they didn't, Rhomania has had ups and downs that force it to have to stay ahead. It can never match its enemies in number, there are just too many, so it absolutely has to beat them in organization, quality of troops, and administration/efficiency.

 

[Frame]

An interesting thing about Rhomania is them seemingly always being up to date when it comes to military matters. I mean, I've read through most of the story, and I find myself surprised they haven't gotten the equivalent of Prussia's national humiliation during the Napoleonic Wars which prompted major reforms.

Any reason why they always manage to keep themselves from stagnating on that front?

Well during the time of Iskander the great they got humiliated quite a few times. But the reason why Rhome is always on the forefront on military matters is because that was the only way they could survive being constantly attacked by the muslims on one side and the catholics on the other.

 

[HanEmpire]

An interesting thing about Rhomania is them seemingly always being up to date when it comes to military matters. I mean, I've read through most of the story, and I find myself surprised they haven't gotten the equivalent of Prussia's national humiliation during the Napoleonic Wars which prompted major reforms.

Any reason why they always manage to keep themselves from stagnating on that front?

The Romans are constantly suffering small humiliations between periods of catastrophe. The entire Time of Troubles was caused in large part by the military not being professionalized, and the wars against Iskander and the Idwaits had humiliating losses due to the officer academy curriculum being outdated. The recent War of Roman Succession had entire units get easily wiped out by the Latins because the Roman mobilization process didn't include proper boot camps.

The Romans are constantly making small reforms over and over which allows them to stay ahead of the curve, but never so far ahead that they dominate.

 

[Frame]

I anticipate Odysseus isn't just going to be known for his slaying of the ottomans. I think hes going to play a large part in consolidating Roman rule over island asia. I think this is going to be a major part of his legacy

 

[E_x_c_u_b_i_t_o_r_e]

I anticipate Odysseus isn't just going to be known for his slaying of the ottomans. I think hes going to play a large part in consolidating Roman rule over island asia. I think this is going to be a major part of his legacy

Hmm I wonder if Odysseus will get the nickname like Basil II. Odysseus the Islam Slayer?
After his war of wrath I'm guessing at one point he'll probably go to Island Asia. Hmm yes it could mimic like the otl Odysseus journey, he goes to Island Asia wreck some latin and muslim shit then goes home, gets lost for a time and then show up in Constantinople at spectacular way.
Yes I think I like to see this.