Deleted member 81475
I don't have any suggestions or corrections, but I'm extremely impressed!
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
Impressive stats and research
Does this figure include the navy and diplomatic ahem (espionage) expenses?Oh before Andreas III kicks the bucket, what's the consensus on whether he reached his above ambition?
6.9 hyperpyra a month per soldier makes 82.8 hyperpyra a year or 41.8 pounds. That looks to me as a serious overestimation. By comparison the Dutch army in the 1630s which likely cost more per man given the overreliance on mercenaries did not exceed 2-3 million guilder in cost per year. Given that 1 guilder at the time is 1,71 grams thus 2.28 equal a hyperpyron the 3 million for an army of 70000 mean 18.8 hyperpyra per soldier per year. Come 1700 the Duke of Marlborough army with 40.000 men was costing 1000000 pounds for roughly 40000 men or 25 pounds per soldier while French costs averaged 218 million livres for an army of about 350.000 or about the same per man . A century later to follow the link here https://www.cairn.info/revue-napoleonica-la-revue-2008-3-page-2.htm the average soldier cost was up to 1.91 francs a day or 28 pounds a year, roughly similar. I don't see why a Byzantine soldier should be costing twice as much 50 years earlier. 20-25 pounds a year seems logical.
Note though that the 8.4 million hyperpyra for the army plus or minus some cost for the navy probably are the right ballpark figure, at British 1700 costs they correspond to an army of about 170.000 men which seems about right, this is the time the fiscal military state is getting born after all and Byzantine eminently well placed to lead the switch to that... in fact given the descriptions it is already doing so.
Last minor note the hyperpyron of 1384-94 was a purely theoretical unit worth two silver stavrata. The latter had also been devalued to 7.4 grams each. Thus at 11:1 exchange with silver they are closer to 0.3 nomismata than 0.39.
Impressive stats and research
Nope. That is just the army figures alone.
Thank you very much for this information. It is very useful. Do you happen to know the sources for the cost of 1630s Dutch soldiers and Marlborough and French soldiers? I'm interested in taking an in-depth look.
I've also made a revision-addition to the update based on the new information provided.
1626: Looking East
1626 continued: The winter and spring of 1625-26 has seen both Ibrahim and Osman working furiously to consolidate their positions. One of Ibrahim’s most pressing tasks is to ensure that he faces no threats in his rear. In one sense the loss of northern India is a gain as he has no need to garrison such a vast swathe of territory anymore. The peace terms with Venkata Raya mean there are no Rajput raiders now. The Ethiopians’ quarrel was with the Sukkuri and a peace on the status quo ante bellum is soon established. The Omani are a tougher sell as they are still angry over the loss of Hormuz but some of that Indian gold and gems convinces them to swallow the bitter pill.
Crucially Osman fails to make any effort to recruit the Omani to his side. If he were to offer them Hormuz that might do, but at the serious risk of having the powerful and wealthy Basra merchants turn on him. In that bitter trade rival of Muscat, the re-conquest of Hormuz was easily viewed as Iskandar’s greatest achievement.
Ibrahim has cause to be grateful for the Vijayanagara Emperor’s consolation prize. The Afghan and Baluchi tribesmen were never the most quiescent subjects even when his father was around and the new state of affairs has not improved their disposition. But the Indian gold and gems bring them around to seeing things Ibrahim’s way, freeing him from potential raids along his eastern border and giving him access to a supply of tough infantry troops. That said, Ibrahim is well aware that their loyalty will last exactly as long as the golden tap remains on and not one second more.
Although muttering under his breath, Ibrahim also acquiesces in the loss of Khwarezm. Once he’s finished redecorating his little twerp of a brother’s skull then he can address this matter. Besides, the Zeng offensives into the Mongol heartland have the steppe in an uproar. Ibrahim’s sympathies for King Theodoros’ upcoming headaches are minimal.
On the other hand, Osman’s diplomatic activities have been directed solely in one direction, Constantinople. After all, what would a few Afghan tribesmen matter if he had three or four, or ten, Roman tagmata at his back? He places great trust in the bond of friendship established between him and now Emperor Andreas III during the latter’s captivity.
Andreas certainly wants to help his friend and by August the eastern tagmata are mustered so that they can move as soon as possible. The Roman court is all in agreement that backing Osman is the preferred course. With everything east of the Zagros under Ibrahim’s banner, Osman is the weaker party and therefore the one who can be convinced to pay up more for Roman support.
Unfortunately for Osman the negotiations are being overseen by Logothete Andronikos Sarantenos. After Mashhadshar, he is not in the mood to go soft and, friendship notwithstanding, Andreas III is clear on the minimum price before anything happens. Not one copper follis, not one boot sole, not so much as a hardtack biscuit, never mind three or four or ten tagmata, are crossing the frontier until the Mashhadshar territories are back in Roman hands.
Osman balks at this. He has been exploiting the propaganda effects of Ibrahim’s loss of northern India and now the cession of Khwarezm as far as they will go. While the Turks and Arabs of Mesopotamia didn’t get as much benefit out of the conquest as the Persians, there are still many greybeards who made their fortunes plundering northern India. So to turn around and do the exact same thing (and at least Ibrahim fought and fought hard and well for India) hardly looks good.
Furthermore the people of Mesopotamia fought and bled and died by the thousands at Nineveh and after the devastation wreaked by the two Roman invasions in the Eternal War they do feel much better with those Roman forts in Ottoman hands. Another potential factor giving Osman pause are reports from his spies that many in Rhomania think Mashhadshar should be just the up-front portion and the trans-Aras the ‘pay on delivery’.
Sarantenos’ personal letters at the time prove that he is one of those, arguing that such cessions should be the minimum demanded if Roman troops are committed. In a letter to Demetrios Sideros, he uses the precedent of the cessions given to Maurice by Khusrau II. Demetrios in his response points out that if his analogy is correct, than ‘any gifts sent to Osman should explode upon collection.’
Some argue that the Romans should just move in and take the Mashhadshar cessions without Osman’s permission. After all the regions are garrisoned by Persian troops who, although they haven’t declared for Ibrahim, haven’t declared for Osman either. Although it could be argued that Osman is choosing to concentrate his forces on the Persian threat, some Romans believe that Osman purposely didn’t push the matter with the garrisons as an excuse for not handing them over to the Romans on the grounds that he can’t cede what he doesn’t control.
Andreas believes the first rather than the second and he is firmly against any preemptive action. A Roman invasion could seriously delegitimize Osman’s position. If the Mesopotamians feel he can’t protect them, they might turn to Ibrahim. In fact Osman argues that he portrays his personal friendship with Andreas III to the Mesopotamians as a guarantor of their safety and if the Romans marched into the region to ‘free them from the Persian yoke’ they would see that. At that point he could cede the Mashhadshar districts without trouble, but until then he can’t hand them over.
Andreas is willing to accept that argument but he is the only one in the White Palace to do so at first. Surprisingly Empress Elizabeth then agrees with the Emperor, Sarantenos believing it to be a cynical ploy to regain her husband’s favor. But then Demetrios Sideros comes out firmly against it much to the fury of the Empress who believes it to be a ploy on the Eparch’s part to maintain his influence by ensuring no alternative source such as the Empress can get established. The Empress’s anger is only aroused further when the Emperor listens to the Eparch rather than her (and to the combined argument of his entire senior bureaucracy, the Patriarch points out to her).
There is no way of knowing how long this whole imbroglio could’ve continued but Ibrahim decides to break the deadlock by launching an invasion of Mesopotamia. Osman marches to meet him without any Roman aid instead of retiring towards the Roman frontier as Andreas advices. Andreas argues that if Osman can draw Ibrahim out after him, the Romans can combine with him and crush his brother in one fell swoop at the onset, rendering the whole matter of ‘forts before-or-after aid’ moot. Osman disagrees, expressing concern that his brother would instead swoop down on undefended Baghdad or Basra instead, crippling his power base. Furthermore there is an element of pride involved. Osman wants Roman aid, but on his terms. He has no intention of being slandered as a Roman puppet, in power only by riding along on their coattails.
The two forces meet in battle at the town of Jalula, a site Osman presents as propitious, ironically on the fourth anniversary of 1st Nineveh. On the same grounds the Rashidun Caliphate had inflicted a serious defeat on the Sassanid Persian Empire almost a thousand years earlier. Perhaps they shall see another great defeat of a Persian horde. The precedent is one that Osman sorely needs. His army musters thirty two thousand to his brother’s thirty nine thousand. Both sides are a mix of veterans and new recruits, Osman drawing from the Janissaries and Azabs and Ibrahim from the Shahsevan and Qizilbash, but Ibrahim has a slightly higher portion of veterans. In artillery they are more closely matched, Osman with forty one cannons to his brother’s forty six.
The battle seesaws back and forth for a while, Osman staying on the defensive to make up for his smaller numbers. But the gunnery of the Old Redoubtables is still murderous on his lines and he has nothing that can match the armored Persian lancers. Recognizing that the battle is starting to veer against him he begins an orderly withdrawal. Unfortunately for him, some of his new recruits panic at this, triggering a rout amongst many of the neighboring units.
By the time Osman regroups he finds himself down to twenty four thousand men, his brother’s force somewhere around thirty six thousand. Seeing no other option he swallows his pride and appeals to Andreas for aid, ceding the Mashhadshar territories up-front. Andreas III at this point is in Antioch and immediately orders the armies to cross the frontier.
Both the Amida and Edessa ‘pockets’ (the latter connects with the territory covered by the three great forts so is not a pocket per se), the strips of the Roman border regions menacing those two major Roman cities ceded to Iskandar, are overrun within a week. Twenty five thousand Roman soldiers, comprised from the Anatolikon, Armeniakon, and Chaldean tagmata, march into the Ottoman Empire proper with orders to link up with Osman. They are under the command of the Strategos of the Armeniakon, Konstantinos Mauromanikos, a veteran soldier who has fought in every major engagement of the Eternal War from Ras al-Ayn to Second Nineveh (he has five weeks seniority over Leo Neokastrites going by his reinstatement as Chaldean Strategos).
Meanwhile the great fortresses of Maskanah, Manbij, and Jarabalus are all placed under siege, operations directed by Stefanos Monomakos who has been promoted to Megas Poliarchos, the ‘Great Master of Sieges’. Any siege trains and operations undertaken by Roman forces anywhere fall under his jurisdiction. Unfortunately all three sites are well-fortified with modern defenses, well-manned, and well-supplied. And as Persians who incline toward Ibrahim, Osman’s cession means nothing to them. To make matters worse, plague spread from Egypt has broken out in Syria, wreaking havoc on supply networks.
The mood of the Turkish troops, already bad since the defeat at Jalula, quickly turns mutinous at the news the Romans have ‘invaded’, which is how they view the Roman activities. Ibrahim’s agents meanwhile are at work spreading discontentment and a little golden sweetener. A week after Jalula a band of disaffected officers try to seize Osman for deliverance to his brother, for which they have been promised a mountain of silver.
Osman, catching wind of the conspiracy and unable to trust the rest of his men, flees, riding hard for the Roman army currently marching toward him. Upon his disappearance there is pandemonium in the Turkish camp until the conspirators manage to bring everybody in line. They argue that Osman’s actions clearly show him to be a Roman puppet and that Ibrahim is the only force that can stop them. Thus the officers eventually convince the men to acknowledge Ibrahim as Shah, although they do force a concession from him that half of all senior military and court positions shall be reserved for Turks (the Arabs of southern Mesopotamia are thus left out in the cold but that doesn’t bother the predominantly Turkish soldiery of Osman’s army).
But while the Turks are forcing this concession from Ibrahim they do have cavalry out looking for Osman, recognizing that possession of him, either dead or alive, would be a valuable bargaining chip. Ibrahim promises a reward of 2 million silver akce for the patrol commander who brings him in and 200,000 for every member of said patrol. (By comparison 600,000 akce builds and outfits a war galley.)
On October 11, just ten miles from the Roman forward screen, Osman is cornered by one of the Turkish patrols and killed, his severed head delivered to his delighted brother (who has already arranged the death of two younger brothers, both children, who were living in Mazandaran). Uniting the Turks with his Persians he now advances on the Romans.
The Romans, unexpectedly facing an Ottoman army twice the size of their own, fall back to the pre-Mashhadshar border but do not abandon the pockets. Meanwhile Monomakos has seized Jarabalus, the northernmost of the three ‘Aleppo’ forts, and re-garrisoned it but Maskanah and Manbij still remain defiant. The siege forces are riddled with plague and poor forage has hundreds of horses down with colic which will kill most of them.
Andreas, recognizing that the situation is not ideal, decides not to contest the issue, too much. He was riding for Mauromanikos with four tourmai and a thousand Anizzah riders as an escort but while retiring to Aleppo a contingent of four thousand Turks veers a little too close. At Sarrin said contingent is roundly trounced, forced to flee after suffering over six hundred casualties to 126 Roman and 19 Anizzah.
After he retires back across the Roman border and Mauromanikos encamps at Amida, Andreas orders the sieges of Maskanah and Manbij abandoned but at the same time reinforcing Jarabalus and the ‘pockets’. He has no intention of giving up what he has already taken. Ibrahim, who has no desire to get embroiled in another Roman war, accepts the situation, reinforcing Maskanah and Manbij but keeping his troops well clear of the reclaimed lands.
Neither Andreas nor Ibrahim want to fight with the plague raging around them, this being a particular nasty outbreak. In Antioch alone twelve thousand have died and the number of dead in the Roman army camps is comparable to that of both Ninevehs. Andreas sets up camp in the suburbs of Antioch arranging relief efforts for the stricken region, organizing grain shipments from as far away as Scythia and Arles. In one particularly famous episode he visits the plague hospital at Lattakieh, conversing with the sick. Twelve die at that hospital that day, Andreas pledging a stipend for all their families to be drawn out of his private incomes.
As winter arrives the situation improves, the plague fizzles out to the relief of everyone. Still Andreas elects to remain in the region. He marched through the area to and from the Persian campaign but apart from that has spent little time here.
Crucially Osman fails to make any effort to recruit the Omani to his side. If he were to offer them Hormuz that might do, but at the serious risk of having the powerful and wealthy Basra merchants turn on him. In that bitter trade rival of Muscat, the re-conquest of Hormuz was easily viewed as Iskandar’s greatest achievement.
Ibrahim has cause to be grateful for the Vijayanagara Emperor’s consolation prize. The Afghan and Baluchi tribesmen were never the most quiescent subjects even when his father was around and the new state of affairs has not improved their disposition. But the Indian gold and gems bring them around to seeing things Ibrahim’s way, freeing him from potential raids along his eastern border and giving him access to a supply of tough infantry troops. That said, Ibrahim is well aware that their loyalty will last exactly as long as the golden tap remains on and not one second more.
Although muttering under his breath, Ibrahim also acquiesces in the loss of Khwarezm. Once he’s finished redecorating his little twerp of a brother’s skull then he can address this matter. Besides, the Zeng offensives into the Mongol heartland have the steppe in an uproar. Ibrahim’s sympathies for King Theodoros’ upcoming headaches are minimal.
On the other hand, Osman’s diplomatic activities have been directed solely in one direction, Constantinople. After all, what would a few Afghan tribesmen matter if he had three or four, or ten, Roman tagmata at his back? He places great trust in the bond of friendship established between him and now Emperor Andreas III during the latter’s captivity.
Andreas certainly wants to help his friend and by August the eastern tagmata are mustered so that they can move as soon as possible. The Roman court is all in agreement that backing Osman is the preferred course. With everything east of the Zagros under Ibrahim’s banner, Osman is the weaker party and therefore the one who can be convinced to pay up more for Roman support.
Unfortunately for Osman the negotiations are being overseen by Logothete Andronikos Sarantenos. After Mashhadshar, he is not in the mood to go soft and, friendship notwithstanding, Andreas III is clear on the minimum price before anything happens. Not one copper follis, not one boot sole, not so much as a hardtack biscuit, never mind three or four or ten tagmata, are crossing the frontier until the Mashhadshar territories are back in Roman hands.
Osman balks at this. He has been exploiting the propaganda effects of Ibrahim’s loss of northern India and now the cession of Khwarezm as far as they will go. While the Turks and Arabs of Mesopotamia didn’t get as much benefit out of the conquest as the Persians, there are still many greybeards who made their fortunes plundering northern India. So to turn around and do the exact same thing (and at least Ibrahim fought and fought hard and well for India) hardly looks good.
Furthermore the people of Mesopotamia fought and bled and died by the thousands at Nineveh and after the devastation wreaked by the two Roman invasions in the Eternal War they do feel much better with those Roman forts in Ottoman hands. Another potential factor giving Osman pause are reports from his spies that many in Rhomania think Mashhadshar should be just the up-front portion and the trans-Aras the ‘pay on delivery’.
Sarantenos’ personal letters at the time prove that he is one of those, arguing that such cessions should be the minimum demanded if Roman troops are committed. In a letter to Demetrios Sideros, he uses the precedent of the cessions given to Maurice by Khusrau II. Demetrios in his response points out that if his analogy is correct, than ‘any gifts sent to Osman should explode upon collection.’
Some argue that the Romans should just move in and take the Mashhadshar cessions without Osman’s permission. After all the regions are garrisoned by Persian troops who, although they haven’t declared for Ibrahim, haven’t declared for Osman either. Although it could be argued that Osman is choosing to concentrate his forces on the Persian threat, some Romans believe that Osman purposely didn’t push the matter with the garrisons as an excuse for not handing them over to the Romans on the grounds that he can’t cede what he doesn’t control.
Andreas believes the first rather than the second and he is firmly against any preemptive action. A Roman invasion could seriously delegitimize Osman’s position. If the Mesopotamians feel he can’t protect them, they might turn to Ibrahim. In fact Osman argues that he portrays his personal friendship with Andreas III to the Mesopotamians as a guarantor of their safety and if the Romans marched into the region to ‘free them from the Persian yoke’ they would see that. At that point he could cede the Mashhadshar districts without trouble, but until then he can’t hand them over.
Andreas is willing to accept that argument but he is the only one in the White Palace to do so at first. Surprisingly Empress Elizabeth then agrees with the Emperor, Sarantenos believing it to be a cynical ploy to regain her husband’s favor. But then Demetrios Sideros comes out firmly against it much to the fury of the Empress who believes it to be a ploy on the Eparch’s part to maintain his influence by ensuring no alternative source such as the Empress can get established. The Empress’s anger is only aroused further when the Emperor listens to the Eparch rather than her (and to the combined argument of his entire senior bureaucracy, the Patriarch points out to her).
There is no way of knowing how long this whole imbroglio could’ve continued but Ibrahim decides to break the deadlock by launching an invasion of Mesopotamia. Osman marches to meet him without any Roman aid instead of retiring towards the Roman frontier as Andreas advices. Andreas argues that if Osman can draw Ibrahim out after him, the Romans can combine with him and crush his brother in one fell swoop at the onset, rendering the whole matter of ‘forts before-or-after aid’ moot. Osman disagrees, expressing concern that his brother would instead swoop down on undefended Baghdad or Basra instead, crippling his power base. Furthermore there is an element of pride involved. Osman wants Roman aid, but on his terms. He has no intention of being slandered as a Roman puppet, in power only by riding along on their coattails.
The two forces meet in battle at the town of Jalula, a site Osman presents as propitious, ironically on the fourth anniversary of 1st Nineveh. On the same grounds the Rashidun Caliphate had inflicted a serious defeat on the Sassanid Persian Empire almost a thousand years earlier. Perhaps they shall see another great defeat of a Persian horde. The precedent is one that Osman sorely needs. His army musters thirty two thousand to his brother’s thirty nine thousand. Both sides are a mix of veterans and new recruits, Osman drawing from the Janissaries and Azabs and Ibrahim from the Shahsevan and Qizilbash, but Ibrahim has a slightly higher portion of veterans. In artillery they are more closely matched, Osman with forty one cannons to his brother’s forty six.
The battle seesaws back and forth for a while, Osman staying on the defensive to make up for his smaller numbers. But the gunnery of the Old Redoubtables is still murderous on his lines and he has nothing that can match the armored Persian lancers. Recognizing that the battle is starting to veer against him he begins an orderly withdrawal. Unfortunately for him, some of his new recruits panic at this, triggering a rout amongst many of the neighboring units.
By the time Osman regroups he finds himself down to twenty four thousand men, his brother’s force somewhere around thirty six thousand. Seeing no other option he swallows his pride and appeals to Andreas for aid, ceding the Mashhadshar territories up-front. Andreas III at this point is in Antioch and immediately orders the armies to cross the frontier.
Both the Amida and Edessa ‘pockets’ (the latter connects with the territory covered by the three great forts so is not a pocket per se), the strips of the Roman border regions menacing those two major Roman cities ceded to Iskandar, are overrun within a week. Twenty five thousand Roman soldiers, comprised from the Anatolikon, Armeniakon, and Chaldean tagmata, march into the Ottoman Empire proper with orders to link up with Osman. They are under the command of the Strategos of the Armeniakon, Konstantinos Mauromanikos, a veteran soldier who has fought in every major engagement of the Eternal War from Ras al-Ayn to Second Nineveh (he has five weeks seniority over Leo Neokastrites going by his reinstatement as Chaldean Strategos).
Meanwhile the great fortresses of Maskanah, Manbij, and Jarabalus are all placed under siege, operations directed by Stefanos Monomakos who has been promoted to Megas Poliarchos, the ‘Great Master of Sieges’. Any siege trains and operations undertaken by Roman forces anywhere fall under his jurisdiction. Unfortunately all three sites are well-fortified with modern defenses, well-manned, and well-supplied. And as Persians who incline toward Ibrahim, Osman’s cession means nothing to them. To make matters worse, plague spread from Egypt has broken out in Syria, wreaking havoc on supply networks.
The mood of the Turkish troops, already bad since the defeat at Jalula, quickly turns mutinous at the news the Romans have ‘invaded’, which is how they view the Roman activities. Ibrahim’s agents meanwhile are at work spreading discontentment and a little golden sweetener. A week after Jalula a band of disaffected officers try to seize Osman for deliverance to his brother, for which they have been promised a mountain of silver.
Osman, catching wind of the conspiracy and unable to trust the rest of his men, flees, riding hard for the Roman army currently marching toward him. Upon his disappearance there is pandemonium in the Turkish camp until the conspirators manage to bring everybody in line. They argue that Osman’s actions clearly show him to be a Roman puppet and that Ibrahim is the only force that can stop them. Thus the officers eventually convince the men to acknowledge Ibrahim as Shah, although they do force a concession from him that half of all senior military and court positions shall be reserved for Turks (the Arabs of southern Mesopotamia are thus left out in the cold but that doesn’t bother the predominantly Turkish soldiery of Osman’s army).
But while the Turks are forcing this concession from Ibrahim they do have cavalry out looking for Osman, recognizing that possession of him, either dead or alive, would be a valuable bargaining chip. Ibrahim promises a reward of 2 million silver akce for the patrol commander who brings him in and 200,000 for every member of said patrol. (By comparison 600,000 akce builds and outfits a war galley.)
On October 11, just ten miles from the Roman forward screen, Osman is cornered by one of the Turkish patrols and killed, his severed head delivered to his delighted brother (who has already arranged the death of two younger brothers, both children, who were living in Mazandaran). Uniting the Turks with his Persians he now advances on the Romans.
The Romans, unexpectedly facing an Ottoman army twice the size of their own, fall back to the pre-Mashhadshar border but do not abandon the pockets. Meanwhile Monomakos has seized Jarabalus, the northernmost of the three ‘Aleppo’ forts, and re-garrisoned it but Maskanah and Manbij still remain defiant. The siege forces are riddled with plague and poor forage has hundreds of horses down with colic which will kill most of them.
Andreas, recognizing that the situation is not ideal, decides not to contest the issue, too much. He was riding for Mauromanikos with four tourmai and a thousand Anizzah riders as an escort but while retiring to Aleppo a contingent of four thousand Turks veers a little too close. At Sarrin said contingent is roundly trounced, forced to flee after suffering over six hundred casualties to 126 Roman and 19 Anizzah.
After he retires back across the Roman border and Mauromanikos encamps at Amida, Andreas orders the sieges of Maskanah and Manbij abandoned but at the same time reinforcing Jarabalus and the ‘pockets’. He has no intention of giving up what he has already taken. Ibrahim, who has no desire to get embroiled in another Roman war, accepts the situation, reinforcing Maskanah and Manbij but keeping his troops well clear of the reclaimed lands.
Neither Andreas nor Ibrahim want to fight with the plague raging around them, this being a particular nasty outbreak. In Antioch alone twelve thousand have died and the number of dead in the Roman army camps is comparable to that of both Ninevehs. Andreas sets up camp in the suburbs of Antioch arranging relief efforts for the stricken region, organizing grain shipments from as far away as Scythia and Arles. In one particularly famous episode he visits the plague hospital at Lattakieh, conversing with the sick. Twelve die at that hospital that day, Andreas pledging a stipend for all their families to be drawn out of his private incomes.
As winter arrives the situation improves, the plague fizzles out to the relief of everyone. Still Andreas elects to remain in the region. He marched through the area to and from the Persian campaign but apart from that has spent little time here.
It is satisfying however that the Ottomans have had to suffer a similar loss in territories and control that the Romans post-Niketas. Shame about Osman though.
Honestly, I'd be all for the Romans pushing to take Mesopotamia, perhaps even calling on Ethiopia to help and calling upon Muscat. I see no reason for them to make concessions to Ibrahim - and a great victory like that (for quite a wealthy region) would be a nice shift in fortunes for the Romans - and truly leave Persia a shadow of its former power, forever lusting over the Despotate of Mesopotamia! Kataphratoi! Ready Kontos! Mesopotamia Awaits!
Does Ibrahim have any heirs that are safe? I'd be all for Ibrahim becoming a Roman prisoner.
Side Note : That kills any discussion of a Roman India, short of some weird intervention scenario.
Honestly, I'd be all for the Romans pushing to take Mesopotamia, perhaps even calling on Ethiopia to help and calling upon Muscat. I see no reason for them to make concessions to Ibrahim - and a great victory like that (for quite a wealthy region) would be a nice shift in fortunes for the Romans - and truly leave Persia a shadow of its former power, forever lusting over the Despotate of Mesopotamia! Kataphratoi! Ready Kontos! Mesopotamia Awaits!
Does Ibrahim have any heirs that are safe? I'd be all for Ibrahim becoming a Roman prisoner.
Side Note : That kills any discussion of a Roman India, short of some weird intervention scenario.
Deleted member 81475
Great update. Doesn't seem to be threadmarked!
Shame about Osman. Not every younger brother can steal the better part of the kingdom from the elder like the Tieh emperor did. The idea of a Roman and Ottoman India seems dead for the moment. The Ottoman position looks pretty unstable without knowing Ibrahim's family situation, but it's possible he's kept alive or imprisoned some other brother or cousin he likes until he has an adult heir. Still, his victories may have averted a time of troubles for his people as some Romans hoped for.
Meanwhile I've been expecting Andreas III to die in every paragraph. Elizabeth stabs him, he's killed by a lucky Turk who dies right after, he gets sick with the plague. I suppose that last one could happen, but I'm more interested in where he plans to go next. He's sort of become a mirror (albeit a lesser one) to his namesake in a way: an emperor who Rhomania will likely think very well of (tax reform means future Theodoros' will worship him, anyway) but who hadtoo many not enough legitimate heirs.
Shame about Osman. Not every younger brother can steal the better part of the kingdom from the elder like the Tieh emperor did. The idea of a Roman and Ottoman India seems dead for the moment. The Ottoman position looks pretty unstable without knowing Ibrahim's family situation, but it's possible he's kept alive or imprisoned some other brother or cousin he likes until he has an adult heir. Still, his victories may have averted a time of troubles for his people as some Romans hoped for.
Meanwhile I've been expecting Andreas III to die in every paragraph. Elizabeth stabs him, he's killed by a lucky Turk who dies right after, he gets sick with the plague. I suppose that last one could happen, but I'm more interested in where he plans to go next. He's sort of become a mirror (albeit a lesser one) to his namesake in a way: an emperor who Rhomania will likely think very well of (tax reform means future Theodoros' will worship him, anyway) but who had
Well that was a sad end for Osman and I had such high hopes for him too.
I really hope Andreas doesn't die of the plague, but I'm guessing he is gonna die of the plague. Then again stranger things have happened.
I really hope Andreas doesn't die of the plague, but I'm guessing he is gonna die of the plague. Then again stranger things have happened.
Some of it is from Kennedy IMS and a fair bit of googling yesterday to make sure I was not remembering things wrong. "The Dutch army and the military revolutions 1588-1688" contains quite a bit of information I think but is mostly unavailable. This will be probably useful too https://books.google.gr/books?id=02IcnmDU9aMC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=cost+of+british+army
Another great update @Basileus444, it will be interesting to see how the reverberations of the Ottoman Civil War play out. Also, way to go on the "footnote," the level of detail poured into this timeline never ceases to amaze.
This may have been discussed before, but have you ever thought about publishing? I know a few others on the site have done so (Fireflies of Port Stanley comes to mind) and I would love to get my hands on a physical copy of your incredible story. I would eagerly donate to a kickstarter, gofundme, etc. to help with a self-publishing effort.
This may have been discussed before, but have you ever thought about publishing? I know a few others on the site have done so (Fireflies of Port Stanley comes to mind) and I would love to get my hands on a physical copy of your incredible story. I would eagerly donate to a kickstarter, gofundme, etc. to help with a self-publishing effort.
After they manage to defeat in the field 100,000 men field armies backed by a shitload of Vauban style fortifications. Either of the two borders will be a very tough nut to crack and Byzantine will be getting an even tougher target once the full switch to fiscal-military state is complete and the imperial armies hit the 300-400,000 men mark as a result. And the future of the Ottomans lies on whether they will be able to match the economic evolution much more than the military-technical evolution where Iskandar's reforms apparently produced European style infantry.