An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[ImperatorAlexander]

He is obsessed with ‘reuniting’ the Roman realms. Some things to consider though-

Ah so he's a mediocre man with overly grandiose dreams.

The Megas Domestikos will soon be taking personal command of the army in Europe.

Probably will be answered in the next update but I wonder if he's anyone we know? Demetrios probably needs someone he can trust at the helm.....

InMediasRes: The Triunes don’t backstab people. Henri was just trying to swat a mosquito for you and forgot he had a pointy object in his hand…

Why do I get the feeling that the artillery train is under secret orders to maximise casualties on both sides when there is a battle? Maybe some friendly fire?

 

[minifidel]

Blast through the land walls with lots of cannons. It’s possible, in theory.

Sure, in theory, but I can't imagine you can position lots of cannons in range of Constantinople's walls but also outside of range of a Ship-of-the-Line on the Black Sea.

 

[Namayan]

i think Constantinople walls are top notch walls upgraded, Heraclean walls? More or less star/bastion forts? compared to belgrade which is more or less medieval walls.

 

[Evilprodigy]

i think Constantinople walls are top notch walls upgraded, Heraclean walls? More or less star/bastion forts? compared to belgrade which is more or less medieval walls.

The update said Belgrade had been rebuilt. Hopefully it was also refurbished into modern defenses.

 

[Babyrage]

Wow things are escalating nicely. Looks like the Germans have brought everything that have to throw at the Romans. In saying that I think if this turns into a war of attrition the Romans have a massive advantage, they're closer to the Roman heartland and the Empire still has their Asian troops and allies that have yet to formally enter the war.

 

[HanEmpire]

The Germans are setting themselves up for a Time of Troubles of their own. There's no way they can send this many men far from their core territories without enraging everyone they pass through with "acquisitions" and "forced loans". They're taking on one of the most powerful empires in the world on their incredibly well defended home ground, while depending on an artillery train commanded by "allies" of dubious loyalty who've already shown themselves to be backstabbing mercenaries at heart. They're pissing away their future economic growth by hamstringing their own middle class, and have stretched their own credit to the limit by taking loans on top of loans on top of loans. On top of it all, they've indebted themselves to a fundamentalist Church who have been chaffing at their gradual loss of temporal power since the Middle Ages to try and integrate an empire full of people that very same Church has launched Crusades against in the past.

This entire war is stupid. I hope Theodore lives a very long and stupid life, just so that he can see all the stupid consequences of his stupid choices laid out in full.

 

[ImperatorAlexander]

The Germans are setting themselves up for a Time of Troubles of their own. There's no way they can send this many men far from their core territories without enraging everyone they pass through with "acquisitions" and "forced loans". They're taking on one of the most powerful empires in the world on their incredibly well defended home ground, while depending on an artillery train commanded by "allies" of dubious loyalty who've already shown themselves to be backstabbing mercenaries at heart. They're pissing away their future economic growth by hamstringing their own middle class, and have stretched their own credit to the limit by taking loans on top of loans on top of loans. On top of it all, they've indebted themselves to a fundamentalist Church who have been chaffing at their gradual loss of temporal power since the Middle Ages to try and integrate an empire full of people that very same Church has launched Crusades against in the past.

This entire war is stupid. I hope Theodore lives a very long and stupid life, just so that he can see all the stupid consequences of his stupid choices laid out in full.

My thoughts exactly, but I guess Germany needs to be taken down a notch since they've been wanked quite a bit. I'm interested to see if there will be a future war that causes major demographical damage like OTL 30 years war. The institutional and military damage causes by Theodor can be fixed with able leadership, losing a few million lives is harder to fix.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

Economically the HREotGN is going to slumping for a long time. The size of Theodor's holdings will be what keeps it together, and possibly a war with the Triunes.

There is going to be a big need in the court in Munich for a reason they didnt win, and the vultures in Kings Landing will be public enemy #1. "They had us over a barrel!".

I see a destruction of the Triunes artillery train also being a serious souring of the cobbled relationship. There is no way any Roman military commander will let it return home. That is just too capable of a threat to let skulk back with the experience it gained from fighting The leading modern army.

Secondly Hyperion for Hyperion, the Triune's are the Romans biggest threat. The ability to assemble an artillery force with the sophistication and speed they can, and be messing with far east trade would put them in my crosshairs as Basileus. I would be working on spreading anti-Triune rumours and propaganda in a low-key fashion all over Germany like crazy. Demetrios must have caught wind of some of the details of their alliance and laughed. He is too cagey to not see the opportunity to exploit such a terrible deal.

Reality is a herring in hand, and god is simply the dancer.

 

[Deleted member 94708]

As usual everyone is assuming this is going to be a resounding victory for the Romans. I wonder.

Given the logistical advantages inherent in their position they will likely win in the end, but their losses will be horrifying. Early Modern states facing off with armies of 100k+ at one point in the field tend to incur losses measured in tenths of the military-age male population over the course of a war.

Sorry, but the Triunes are going to come out of this looking good in Europe because the other two will have beaten one another bloody. The only offsetting factor may be some losses in the East.

TLDR: Artillery replaceable, flower of youth population not.

 

[kimo]

Germany also has to be putting a much larger portion of its manpower and economy into the war than Rome. Even with the rest of the HRE, Rome is far much larger than Germany, and has had generations to recover from the Time of Troubles.

What are the chances of the EAN joining the war against Germany? I can't see them feeling comfortable with the idea of their only real threat by land growing stronger. The Triunes especially I could see trying to take Scotland if they were strengthened by Rome's eastern holdings (although the threat of EAN is probably unifying). I could see the EAN fortifying the border with the Triunes and invading North Germany to take Theodor's Northern holdings in former Denmark.

 

[Stark]

Germany also has to be putting a much larger portion of its manpower and economy into the war than Rome. Even with the rest of the HRE, Rome is far much larger than Germany, and has had generations to recover from the Time of Troubles.

From what I recall, Rome was behind the population of UK and HRE (with Russia divided). They are more efficient, but those two have the raw numbers on their side.

 

[Babyrage]

From what I recall, Rome was behind the population of UK and HRE (with Russia divided). They are more efficient, but those two have the raw numbers on their side.

That's right, Rhomania is 3rd out of the top dogs overall population wise, however, that's discounting the Despotates, I'm sure Egypt and Sicily will contribute where appropriate, especially the later.

Even so, with the main theatre of this war being the Balkans, Rhomania is going replace any losses much faster and more efficiently than the Germans (if they are even able to replace them at all).

Unless someone drastic happens (like Lombard or Ottoman intervention on behalf of the Germans), Rhomania is just going to grow stronger as the war drags on. Theodor needs a knock out punch, and he needs it a lot sooner than Demetrios.

 

[chrnno]

As usual everyone is assuming this is going to be a resounding victory for the Romans. I wonder.

Nope everyone is predicting a resounding defeat of the Germans, how Romans will end is still up in the air.

I mean let's assume somehow impossibly Theodore not only succeeds in becoming ruler of Rhomania but does with minimum losses on both sides, great right? Except this is not a video game, however problematic taking Rhomania might be trying to rule it and the HRE in a realm combined is a thousand times worse because not only you will have to deal with all the issues both had before, not only all the new issues in trying to integrate immense distinct realms, not only the resulting issues of the combination of the previous, but also all countries around resorting to everything they can imagine to prevent the giant on their borders from ever being capable of projecting power.

That is the worst part of it all what Theodore wants is not by any sane consideration a true victory, only someone completely divorced from reality would actually think it a remotely good idea, being ruler of the HRE is so much better than trying to have it and Rhomania could ever be. Like even going for taking over the Triunes would be less stupid and if that idea came up everyone would find it laughable.

EDIT: Also can anyone point me to the most current map of Europe?

 

[Arrix85]

The most likely scenario is the total exhaustion of the two side, a very costly draw, after which neither the Romans nor the Germans will have the possibility of claiming victory with a straight face. The best scenario it's that the Triunes' backstab will be so spectacular that will manage to somehow get Germany and Rhomania closer through their common hatred for King's Landing, thus starting to reduce over time Rhomania's isolation in Europe (since Russia' Sundering)

To be more clear Theodor's folly may finally get this insane idea of reuniting the "roman" thrones out of the Germans' system(or even the idea they are the true heirs) , once this drive is gone then there's no reason left for any kind of rivalry thus ending Rhomania' ever costant threat of two-fronts wars (there is no credible possibility of invasion without support in Munich). Not suggesting they're going to be friends, the scars will last for quite a while.

 

[Evilprodigy]

Nope everyone is predicting a resounding defeat of the Germans, how Romans will end is still up in the air.

I mean let's assume somehow impossibly Theodore not only succeeds in becoming ruler of Rhomania but does with minimum losses on both sides, great right? Except this is not a video game, however problematic taking Rhomania might be trying to rule it and the HRE in a realm combined is a thousand times worse because not only you will have to deal with all the issues both had before, not only all the new issues in trying to integrate immense distinct realms, not only the resulting issues of the combination of the previous, but also all countries around resorting to everything they can imagine to prevent the giant on their borders from ever being capable of projecting power.

That is the worst part of it all what Theodore wants is not by any sane consideration a true victory, only someone completely divorced from reality would actually think it a remotely good idea, being ruler of the HRE is so much better than trying to have it and Rhomania could ever be. Like even going for taking over the Triunes would be less stupid and if that idea came up everyone would find it laughable.

EDIT: Also can anyone point me to the most current map of Europe?

What you're describing was already mentioned several times. That's why everyone thinks the Germans will fail, because in the long run their goals are impossible to achieve.

 

[Namayan]

The most likely scenario is the total exhaustion of the two side, a very costly draw, after which neither the Romans nor the Germans will have the possibility of claiming victory with a straight face. The best scenario it's that the Triunes' backstab will be so spectacular that will manage to somehow get Germany and Rhomania closer through their common hatred for King's Landing, thus starting to reduce over time Rhomania's isolation in Europe (since Russia' Sundering)

To be more clear Theodor's folly may finally get this insane idea of reuniting the "roman" thrones out of the Germans' system(or even the idea they are the true heirs) , once this drive is gone then there's no reason left for any kind of rivalry thus ending Rhomania' ever costant threat of two-fronts wars (there is no credible possibility of invasion without support in Munich). Not suggesting they're going to be friends, the scars will last for quite a while.

Highly unlikely.

In order for it to be a draw, the Romans must change war goals rather than Defense.

Total exhaustion means both Germans and Romans are equal on everything. Meaning the germans must have an Iskander level General or equal organization while the Romans have below average field commanders while Repeating intelligence failures like their wars with Iskander.

Germans havent proven anything equal or better yet over the Romans with probable exception of population and initial military size, but not necessarily tapping that population nor military/logistical organization

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

To what end Can the Rhomans put this war on to an offensive footing? There is Croatia and Aquileia that could be brought to terms, which could lead to a bigger hinterland for Venezia. They can ravage Hungary, which would only make the axe the court of St. Stephen is grinding, double headed. They could put Vienna under siege, the Danube is theirs so long as both banks are secure. They could draw on the naval capacity of both Egypt and Sicily to really shake up the W.Med, and the approaches around Iberia and W.Africa, this however would sour relations with the Iberian states.

If these ideas have flaws please say so, as I am spit-balling because it seems a lot of the discussion is leaning towards just the campaign in the Haematic peninsula. This is going to be truly WW0, and I feel that Demetrios has a streak of Machiavelli in him and understands that if he wants to have even a decade of "peace" in his reign [if it lasts that long (which I hope it does, he is my favourite character in this story, and has a chance of living up to his namesakes appellation of Megas, just in an economic and political manner)], he needs to break his enemies so that the thought of a war with Rome is the last thing on their mind. He also needs to finally secure from threats, if not stabilize, Rhomania-in-the-east.

This war is going to set the stage for the geopolitical world for the century to come. I could even see if the Rhomans win, mesopotamia will be next to be quieted. The Triunes are building a threat to Romes eastern trade, through the Ottomans. Yes that would be a generational plan of build up and attack, but again I feel Demetrios sees the long game better than most. Also the thought of a descendant of Timur sending Rhoman armies to bring the Ottomans asunder makes me smile.

 

[kimo]

To what end Can the Rhomans put this war on to an offensive footing? There is Croatia and Aquileia that could be brought to terms, which could lead to a bigger hinterland for Venezia. They can ravage Hungary, which would only make the axe the court of St. Stephen is grinding, double headed. They could put Vienna under siege, the Danube is theirs so long as both banks are secure. They could draw on the naval capacity of both Egypt and Sicily to really shake up the W.Med, and the approaches around Iberia and W.Africa, this however would sour relations with the Iberian states.

I do feel like the Romans have to do more than just white peace out, an offense this big has to be answered in kind. Constantinople should make common cause with Germany and the Triune's other rivals, like Scandinavia and Arles. It's difficult to see them wanting the two biggest western powers to get even stronger. The best thing to do would probably weaken the HRE itself by decentralizing it as it used to be. Doing that as an outside power however would probably unite them even more than they already are. I don't know how powerful the German princes are at this point but I could see them turning on the overbearing Wittelsbachs to get out under their thumb.

I say Demetrios should go all in and become a Timur to the state of Germany.

 

[Deleted member 94708]

I reiterate; the Romans will not be in a position to punish anyone following this, certainly not someone with whom they share no border and who has suffered minimal casualties. Even assuming that they don’t become embroiled to the East, this war is going to cost them several hundred thousand military-age males dead or crippled hopelessly.

Seriously, let’s stop fantasizing about how they will ally with the equally crippled Germans to fight the Angevins in France and break them once and for all. Not happening.

They’ll be doing well just not to get crushed in Asia by local rivals after the challenges they’ll face.

Germany will be even worse off, so I expect some sort of political upheaval there. A new emperor at minimum, but possibly a change in dynasty or government.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I do feel like the Romans have to do more than just white peace out, an offense this big has to be answered in kind. Constantinople should make common cause with Germany and the Triune's other rivals, like Scandinavia and Arles. It's difficult to see them wanting the two biggest western powers to get even stronger. The best thing to do would probably weaken the HRE itself by decentralizing it as it used to be. Doing that as an outside power however would probably unite them even more than they already are. I don't know how powerful the German princes are at this point but I could see them turning on the overbearing Wittelsbachs to get out under their thumb.

I say Demetrios should go all in and become a Timur to the state of Germany.

The best target really would be (with the current players) the wholesale conquest of its enemies upto and past Vienna. Easily the best location for the Romans to threaten Germany. If we're hypothesising a Timurification of Germany then I think Belgrade is a prelude to a campaign to Vienna, and then a burning of Germany to force a piece.