An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
True, and the Kongo looks to be modernizing with Ethiopian influence also.
West Africans are still going to get sodomized though.
There's still time, Europeans are mostly bound to the coast. Although you are right, slave raids and counter slave raids will be a problem.
Given the religious and economic tensions that are clearly rising is there any pressure for an ATL Reformation? I know its over 100 years removed from the OTL one but better late than never?
That would seem to be antithetical to the historical Inquisition, which was far more restrained than the secular power was. An "aversion" as TVTropes would call it.
It's a good indication of how humanistic this Spanish Kingdom has become with the prominence of the mercantile Portuguese maritime empire. Brushing against and mixing with the (mostly) peaceful Andalusi Muslims must've instilled more tolerance in the local culture instead of the rabid religious homogeneity that OTL Spain had. The splitting of the Catholic Church and the presence of Roman, Triune, and German Great Powers in Europe also must have influenced the Spanish civil authorities to keep dogmatism bottled up.
This TTL Spain is extremely interesting, while it may never reach the heights of OTL it seems poised to become even a great power if this development continues.
It'll be fascinating to see the long term ramifications of the lack of Jews in most of Western Europe, given the big economic effects OTL. Perhaps that additional economic boost will help both Rhomania and Spain keep up with Germany and the UK economically.
It'll be fascinating to see the long term ramifications of the lack of Jews in most of Western Europe, given the big economic effects OTL. Perhaps that additional economic boost will help both Rhomania and Spain keep up with Germany and the UK economically.
Evilprodigy
Donor
8,000 in Constantinople is considered large?
Istanbul had 30,000 when the Sephardic migration finished in the early 16th century.
Istanbul had 30,000 when the Sephardic migration finished in the early 16th century.
HanEmpire: The Emperors are already pretty mixed-race as is. I have absolutely no clue how the proportions work out but Andreas III has at a minimum Greek, Armenian, Georgian, Turkish, and Italian ancestry. At some point I do plan on having Ethiopian and Japanese women as Empresses of the Romans.
Regarding the Ethiopians, the ideas that blacks are racially inferior is just getting started. Although Ethiopia and Kongo could be “rationalized” on the “grounds” that ‘all Africans are inferior, but some are less inferior than others’. And if they wanted to be really difficult, they could just argue that Ethiopian success is due solely to Roman aid (it helped, yes, but the Ethiopians did the heavy lifting; the Romans just gave pointers).
Check out the beginning of the 1610 update for the Sicilian Jews. Short story, Sicily followed the ‘Golden Age of Sepharad’ route, starting really nice and then blowing up in their faces. While it is nice to make the ATL world a better place, it is the 1600s after all and realism demands its pound of flesh.
Sceonn: Yeah, the Atlantic slave trade is still going to screw over Africa in a lot of ways like OTL. But it will, on-average, fare better than OTL (admittedly that’s a low bar), but with wide regional variation.
ImperatorAlexander: There was a tepid one back around the OTL schedule (the initial rise of Bohmanism) but with Avignon Catholicism open to reform a lot of the drive for the Reformation fizzled out. Now with Avignon conservative and corrupt there could be a ‘Reformation MK2’, although Bohmanism is now associated rather strongly with the Triunes.
That said, with my Southern Baptist upbringing that was often an insult to intelligence and basic decency, I have little patience and less respect for Christian theology.
Nobody saw that coming…
TyranicusMaximus: I liked the idea of Spain, of all places, being one of the most moderate Christian countries.
JohnSmith: I admit I have a soft spot for early modern Spain, although it had really serious flaws especially when it came to religious bigotry. So this is my attempt to make a better, in my opinion, Spain. More humanistic, less bigoted, more advanced. And while it certainly won’t attain the heights of OTL, hopefully its course here will be a happier and more prosperous one.
Arrix85: Thank you. It is fun to step out of the chronology and look at the broad brushstrokes. Plus it’s a good way to set up the zeitgeist. Those brief bits about the historic-romantic era weren’t just window dressing.
Babyrage: English is still going strong in England itself although if you’re a member of the middle or upper classes knowing French is always extremely useful and often vital. Considering how well English held up during the Norman and Plantagenet eras I don’t see it going away.
Regarding a military update, I’m not planning one specific update but will be integrating information into the general narrative. Plus some new innovations will be popping up and I don’t want to spoil them.
Kimo321: France, England, and Ireland are all separate sovereignties under the Triune Monarch with their individual governments running their internal affairs but certain broader aspects are controlled by the government in King’s Harbor. The capital is responsible for overseeing customs so England can’t try and start a tariff war with France. The military is also controlled by the government. There’s no French army or English army; there’s just the Triune army, although there are French and English units.
Evilprodigy: I admit I didn’t know that, otherwise I would’ve gone with a bigger number. So I’ll just defend it by saying ‘large’ is relative. Plus while Constantinople is the biggest, there are a lot of other sizeable Jewish communities, say 4000 in Thessaloniki, Smyrna and Antioch, 2000 in Corinth, Nicaea, and Trebizond, 1000 in Attaleia and Sinope… The numbers could add to something more comparable to Ottoman Jewish levels, although there won’t be anything approaching majority-Jewish Salonica.
Regarding the Ethiopians, the ideas that blacks are racially inferior is just getting started. Although Ethiopia and Kongo could be “rationalized” on the “grounds” that ‘all Africans are inferior, but some are less inferior than others’. And if they wanted to be really difficult, they could just argue that Ethiopian success is due solely to Roman aid (it helped, yes, but the Ethiopians did the heavy lifting; the Romans just gave pointers).
Check out the beginning of the 1610 update for the Sicilian Jews. Short story, Sicily followed the ‘Golden Age of Sepharad’ route, starting really nice and then blowing up in their faces. While it is nice to make the ATL world a better place, it is the 1600s after all and realism demands its pound of flesh.
Sceonn: Yeah, the Atlantic slave trade is still going to screw over Africa in a lot of ways like OTL. But it will, on-average, fare better than OTL (admittedly that’s a low bar), but with wide regional variation.
ImperatorAlexander: There was a tepid one back around the OTL schedule (the initial rise of Bohmanism) but with Avignon Catholicism open to reform a lot of the drive for the Reformation fizzled out. Now with Avignon conservative and corrupt there could be a ‘Reformation MK2’, although Bohmanism is now associated rather strongly with the Triunes.
That said, with my Southern Baptist upbringing that was often an insult to intelligence and basic decency, I have little patience and less respect for Christian theology.
Nobody saw that coming…
TyranicusMaximus: I liked the idea of Spain, of all places, being one of the most moderate Christian countries.
JohnSmith: I admit I have a soft spot for early modern Spain, although it had really serious flaws especially when it came to religious bigotry. So this is my attempt to make a better, in my opinion, Spain. More humanistic, less bigoted, more advanced. And while it certainly won’t attain the heights of OTL, hopefully its course here will be a happier and more prosperous one.
Arrix85: Thank you. It is fun to step out of the chronology and look at the broad brushstrokes. Plus it’s a good way to set up the zeitgeist. Those brief bits about the historic-romantic era weren’t just window dressing.
Babyrage: English is still going strong in England itself although if you’re a member of the middle or upper classes knowing French is always extremely useful and often vital. Considering how well English held up during the Norman and Plantagenet eras I don’t see it going away.
Regarding a military update, I’m not planning one specific update but will be integrating information into the general narrative. Plus some new innovations will be popping up and I don’t want to spoil them.
Kimo321: France, England, and Ireland are all separate sovereignties under the Triune Monarch with their individual governments running their internal affairs but certain broader aspects are controlled by the government in King’s Harbor. The capital is responsible for overseeing customs so England can’t try and start a tariff war with France. The military is also controlled by the government. There’s no French army or English army; there’s just the Triune army, although there are French and English units.
Evilprodigy: I admit I didn’t know that, otherwise I would’ve gone with a bigger number. So I’ll just defend it by saying ‘large’ is relative. Plus while Constantinople is the biggest, there are a lot of other sizeable Jewish communities, say 4000 in Thessaloniki, Smyrna and Antioch, 2000 in Corinth, Nicaea, and Trebizond, 1000 in Attaleia and Sinope… The numbers could add to something more comparable to Ottoman Jewish levels, although there won’t be anything approaching majority-Jewish Salonica.
Maybe high housing prices in Constantinople can explain the discrepancy. The Third Triumvirate did institute a lot of reforms to try to cut down on the over-crowding that the City was suffering from. Since Constantinople wouldn't have suffered much grain shortages (Egypt and Scythia had their respective crises during different time periods IIRC), I don't see the population having dropped all that much.
Actually on that note, how clean are Roman Cities compared to OTL? In OTL urban centres had negative population growth until the late 19th century or something like that, but the Romans are fastidious about having clean water, sewers, and disease prevention.
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And also Avignon completely losing to Rome, I think the only ones left with Avignon are Arles and Iberia? Western Europe is overdue for some catastrophically destructive religious conflicts.
How are the demographics and population in Western Europe given that they have been spared from the destructive wars of OTL such as the Italian wars and the 30 years war?
The Mexicans are Avignon Catholics, though an incredibly syncretic and heretical one. I doubt the fossils in Avignon will care though once they realize that shunning Tlexcoco means no access to all them followers.
Evilprodigy
Donor
Salonica/Thessaloniki is the well known example but all the cities you indicate had sizable Jewish groups OTL after the Sephardic expulsion, though Izmir/Smyrna didn't get migrants until much later when, IIRC, some Jews were resettled there from Salonica and it became a merchant centre as a result. Ottomans also had large numbers of Jews in Damascus, Safed, Jerusalem, and Cairo who would come to outnumber the local population of Arabic-speaking Jews (just like they outnumbered Romaniote Jews in the Balkans). The numbers I found are listing families, 70 to 1,500 in Jerusalem during the expansion, Safed from 300 to 2,000, and 500 in Damascus after migration. Assuming an average family size of 4-5 that would be 6,000-7,500 in Jerusalem, 8,000-10,000 in Safed, and 2,000-2,500 in Damascus. Those are the ones I found numbers for, but Jews also settled in Adrianople, Nicopolis, and Sarajevo in Europe and Aydin, Bursa, Amasya, and Tokat in Anatolia.
@Basileus444 , I've probably missed it, but did you mention the fate of Al-Jahmr?
I assume it's been absorbed into Brazil?
I assume it's been absorbed into Brazil?
It's also interesting how uninvolved Spain is with wars in Europe, considering how they were the Catholic Church's policeman in OTL. Is it because there's still buffers such as Aragon and Al-Andalus? Or there's just no interest without any holdings outside of Iberia?