Yeah, the coming few centuries is going to be darker for Rhomania but I personally think they can still give the Triunes and the Spanish a good bloody nose in the naval theatre
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
The lessening strength of Rhomania as middleman is driven almost entirely by the cost of transiting the Red Sea. I would expect an emperor with any sense to immediately see the power of steam ships and canals when that technology is available. By the mid 19th century Rhomania will hold a huge advantage over western Europe when it comes to trading in the east. All they need to do is hold on to their key possessions until then.
As far as that goes, they are in an excellent position. They hold Malaysia and OTL Singapore, OTL Sri Lanka, and a significant portion of both the OTL Philippines and Indonesia. They've also done a far greater job than their competitors of building a local powerbase and incorporating the locals into the Rhoman power structure. They also have strong regional allies in Japan and Mataram. Dislodging them will not be an easy feat.
The problem is that as the colonies grow stronger militarily and financially, and with the natives rise in power within them, any loyalty to far off Constantinople will wane and disappear.
Why pay taxes and be exposed to a monopoly in trading with a far off overlord when we can perfectly defend and administer ourselves?
Why pay taxes and be exposed to a monopoly in trading with a far off overlord when we can perfectly defend and administer ourselves?
We can argue the same thing about any large European colony like Triune Bengal or Spanish Brazil. Independence is inevitable for such an entity, but it's clear that Rhomania has a far larger stake in Nusantara and the East than the Latins right now thanks to their allies, colonies, and prevailing navy. Overturning that during the 17th century is going to be very difficult.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
From Persia yes, but Rhomania has an almost as good trade route from the East to Eastern/Central Europe. Of course the real game changer is going to be whenever the canal is made, which could be much sooner than OTL.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Yep, they aren't really making colonies in the way we think of them today. As far as Rhomania is concerned they are just adding more provinces to the empire.
Exactly. Many on this board have speculated that not far down the line Malay might be seen as just as essential an ethnicity as Armenian within the empire. And connection with Rhomania will always provide defense provisions and preferential access to a huge market that includes Egypt, Syria, Anatolia, the Balkans, Italy, Georgia, and Russia. Long term I see movement to despotates as more likely than true independence. Provided Rhomania remembers the lesson from Italy in how to deal with despotates that is.
You can only make that argument when you can stop the overlord from beating the shit out of you
Not gonna be that easy for them, Roman holdings there are pretty much compact and near self sufficient with some exceptions. Heraklian islands is practically a beast of its own and can and will exert more power over time. Just like the other katephano on otl Singapore, they can exert more power over time.
By the time Mataram had ideas the katephanates on either side near his territory would have grown stronger.
Perhaps Mataram could piggyback off of the Triunes or Spanish in order to try and screw over Roman territory in the east
Keep in mind that Mataram just finished fighting the Spanish supported state on their island. There's bad blood between them at the moment. Obviously we know it's not impossible for two powers to set aside their differences to screw over Constantinople, the Spanish and the Triunes just did, but it will take some development to get there. At the moment Mataram is receiving essentially a modernization starter kit from Rhomania. If they start dealing with anyone else, expect that to be cut off real quick and they will have a hostile neighbor with bases to the northwest, north, northeast and east of them.
That actually makes me curious. It feels like the Gospel of Thomas might be an attractive thing in Japan. What's the status of the Gnostic texts? With Christianity still strong through the Levant and Egypt would this lead to an earlier rediscovery of them and/or a greater suppression?
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Thankfully by the time Mataram will be able to do this then Rhomania's own colonies will be in position to defend themselves. Rhomania seems to be on the path of having the colonies be self-sufficient on defense at least.
And here is the other likely obvious difference... the imperial east is not going to be a mass of disenfranchised natives exploited by the imperial centre. Probably at least. Will be interesting to see how Hellenization goes over there.
If anything, Constantinoples asian colonies will probably be something similar to just assimilated provinces. 21th century Asia is looking its gonna have more attachments to Europe than OTL
Vince
Monthly Donor
I just thought of the idea of a Federal Rome with Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines as states. Could you imagine TTL 2018 having the center of Roman Culture moving to or be heavily influenced by Indonesia by the sheer size of the population? Just some quick math with our population numbers, the "core" Roman Empire (Turkey/Greece/Bulgaria/Syria/Jordan/Israel/Lebanon) comes out to about 143 million vs Indonesia's 273. It gets balanced out better if you add Egypt and Sicily but still.
I'm chuckling at the idea of Empire's favorite "Roman" cuisine being Satay and Fried Rice.