What orders they are not following properly? They have been ordered to capture Austria, which they did, smash up Germany till told otherwise, which they are very much doing and not start a war with the Triple monarchy which they are again doing. Now Demetrios III can be accused perhaps of not switching his game to supporting the Germans fast enough but this is not a wargame for people to switch gears that fast. The Germans spent the last few years burning their way to the Aegean coast in alliance with the Ottomans on grounds of... no apparent reason but it striking the fancy of their emperor to conquer the empire? If someone proposed in Christmas 1944 with the war still going on to switch from smashing up Germany to leaving it alone and giving it lend lease to avoid the Soviets growing too strong how many would be taking such advice well?
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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What orders they are not following properly? They have been ordered to capture Austria, which they did, smash up Germany till told otherwise, which they are very much doing and not start a war with the Triple monarchy which they are again doing. Now Demetrios III can be accused perhaps of not switching his game to supporting the Germans fast enough but this is not a wargame for people to switch gears that fast. The Germans spent the last few years burning their way to the Aegean coast in alliance with the Ottomans on grounds of... no apparent reason but it striking the fancy of their emperor to conquer the empire? If someone proposed in Christmas 1944 with the war still going on to switch from smashing up Germany to leaving it alone and giving it lend lease to avoid the Soviets growing too strong how many would be taking such advice well?
cant really blame the Romans that much, it is evident in their lack of an overarching geopolitical objective that, right now, theyre in the game to smash some German peoples' shit in- which they are currently doing with gusto. Intellectually, these guys might know that the Triunes are the real asshats but if I saw my wife's rapist cowering before me and speaking Horse I'd shoot him, then my friend points to his wife's rapist and- well, you see where this is going
On the Romans, I wonder how politically engaged the common people would be, obviously they would not be happy if there were shortages of any kind, but to more normal things, would they be rallying around a specific leader, would they go out and protest an official revealed to be corrupt?
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He was talking about if Demetrios ever changes his orders to helping the Germans instead of wrecking them. He is worried that that would be one of those stupid orders, the ones you don't give if you think they won't be obeyed.
All things said and done the empire is still majority Greek and culturally even more so. Not a lot particularly known for indifference to politics in general and not picking up political arguments in particular no matter the exact type of government. Or to be more cynical to "and why exactly you are better than me? do you know who I am?"
If King Ferdinand can manage to bring the Portuguese merchants around they'll have a major opportunity after the Triune and Lotharingian navies finish blasting each other into pieces. Why settle for opening said lock when the door has exploded itself open into a house in chaos?
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Oh god now that Christianity is the official religion in Japan, I’m extremely curious to see how anime turns out ITTL . Shitty harem shows are going to be called “Andread” or “Niketas” genre anime, aren’t they? And in that vein, I’ve got a few questions for the thread in general. Maybe I write a shitty omake that’s just a fake Anime News Network article lmao.
-what the hell kind of freaky shit is Neon Genesis Evangelion gonna be on once it gets produced? Is Gendo Ikari gonna be a copy paste of Guiscard as portrayed in the Alexiad (they’re admittedly similar people once you think about it)?
-How does Maria the Virgin Witch change in response to Arles existing?
-Who the hell becomes Ruler in Fate/Apocrypha, maybe Brihan of Mewar (DAMN YOU NASU MAKE MORE AFRICAN SERVANTS ARCHER SAMOURI TOURE NOW)?
-Are we gonna see five seasons Spatha Art Online just to fuck with all of the weebs ITTL?
-Will “Saga of Anna the Evil” be about an asshole salaryman reincarnated into an analogue of early Sideran Rome with 20th century tech?
-Will Kazuma Satō of Konosuba drag one of God’s more important angels down to the isekai plane instead of a shitty water goddess?
All this and more came spewing out of my asshole when I had time to daydream earlier.
-what the hell kind of freaky shit is Neon Genesis Evangelion gonna be on once it gets produced? Is Gendo Ikari gonna be a copy paste of Guiscard as portrayed in the Alexiad (they’re admittedly similar people once you think about it)?
-How does Maria the Virgin Witch change in response to Arles existing?
-Who the hell becomes Ruler in Fate/Apocrypha, maybe Brihan of Mewar (DAMN YOU NASU MAKE MORE AFRICAN SERVANTS ARCHER SAMOURI TOURE NOW)?
-Are we gonna see five seasons Spatha Art Online just to fuck with all of the weebs ITTL?
-Will “Saga of Anna the Evil” be about an asshole salaryman reincarnated into an analogue of early Sideran Rome with 20th century tech?
-Will Kazuma Satō of Konosuba drag one of God’s more important angels down to the isekai plane instead of a shitty water goddess?
All this and more came spewing out of my asshole when I had time to daydream earlier.
Well if you are being serious then it would likely be better to just take entertainment from Britain, France, Germany or USA and change things a bit. Given the massive divergence here I feel some falling in that spectrum is the most likely result.
I actually am being completely serious. There is a shitload of stuff in that sort of entertainment OTL that is heavily informed by Shintoism, Buddhism, and the like. It's extremely difficult to find a nuanced and mostly accurate interpretation of Christianity in Animango. ITTL, it could be very different. As you say, the tropes and such would likely be closer in line with those of the west. (This is probably going to result in much better live action adaptations on the part of western production studios but eh.) We'll also get a shitload of Roman-inspired stuff, like manga adaptations of multiple important literary works written by the emperors. Or isekai worlds being far more inspired by stereotypes of medieval "Byzantine" culture than Latin.
I'm wondering, compared to the OTL 17th Century Ottoman Empire, how powerful is the Roman Empire? I've heard that the Ottomans back then were still very powerful, and it took the combined forces of the entire Holy League to defeat the Ottomans, and even then they put up a great fight, and managed to drag the war for more than a decade.
Cant say for sure man... tho I dont think the Roman Empire could beat this TL's version of the Holy League- could probably stalemate them indefinitely tho. The Romans, when not stretching themselves on multiple fronts, commands at least as much as the rest of Europe combined. The main reason I dont think they can beat TTL's version of the Holy League is due to how the TimeOfTroubles drastically undercut, thought not eliminate, Rhomania's distinctive advantage in manpower. The Despotates might not necessarily stick to established Roman military standard (wasnt there a debacle in Egypt a few years back ITTL).
Rhomania's qualitative advantage remains, however, be it in organization or equipment or training or logistics. This advantage is enough for them to successfully pursue a two front war against states of similar size and competitively large resources. SO successfully in fact that they are now beating the shit out of one of these said states- AFTER retroactively giving the other state daddy issues from the severe belting they were given.
Then again, I think basically everyone got a power boost in this TL (takes various forms, but yeah)... so idk what might happen.
Another thing I'm wondering is, how would the Romans handle things like decolonization in the possible future, IOTL, decolonization was a bleeding mess, it getting messier because colonial powers like France refused to give up their colonies, I'm wondering if the Romans would be as stubborn in keeping their overseas possession as the French were, and even now, the French have significant reach in their former colonies in Africa.
Shit could go either way honestly. The mere fact of Christianity making greater inroads in SEA and East Asia makes decoupling easier if it ever becomes a necessity. There’s less of a cultural divide between Rhomania and her Indo-Pacific possessions and the sectarian violence will lessen. If Japan ever becomes a great power, and Russia stays a Roman ally with Pacific capabilities, the three could theoretically work together to maintain stability once the Ancient Regime pulls out of Indonesia and the Philippines.
I think there’s also much greater immigration from the heartland to the colonies, as well as foreign Orthodox populations contributing significant manpower. If the Empire does not seize the Hawaiian Islands (OTL Honolulu could easily become a crucial military outpost, OTL Ma’alaea/Manele/Lahaina/Kahului could develop into a major trading harbor, etc.) I could easily see enough pan-Asian immigration diluting native manpower and culture enough in some Roman islands to create an equivalent to OTL Oahu, where the diversity ironically allows a government 2500 or more miles away to keep a tight lid on separatism.
Decolonization depends on the place and treatment of locals.
Sumatra and Java may long for independence since their culture and civilization, densely populated, more developed compared to the other islands. Still depends on the populace and could go either way.
But Luzon and all the other islands like Borneo may not want independence due to lack of any semblance of national identity, population density, sophistication.
OTL European colonies were very discriminating. For example, in the OTL Philippines, locals and Creolles, including white Spanish migrants were simply asking for equal treatment from Spanish born in the Iberian peninsula, never got that.
However, the Romans treat locals differently by 1630s, as long as you speak Greek and Orthodox religion, loyal to the Roman Empire, you are Roman even if you were born in Luzon, Ceylon and the color of your skin is brown or black. You can even be an emperor if you got the talent and went thru the process like the Sideros.
It is very difficult to decolonize one area, if everyone in that area believes they are Romans.
Those sure that I see independent would be Egypt, Sicily and North Africa but would be a different case since they already have autonomy by 1630s.
Speaking of SE Asia- I’m wondering to what extent the butterflies of this timeline have slowed or stopped the spread of Islam in Indonesia and the Philippines. I remember a while back B44 had a one liner about how the Majapahit has been a bit more successful in pushing it back ITTL. A hybrid Hindu-Buddhist belief system had been dominant on Java until relatively late in the game.
I don’t believe Islam ever really did gain significant ground ITTL. Support from foreign Orthodox and Catholic powers is certainly a factor but their impact is limited by distance. I’d personally wager on the much closer and much more outward-looking behemoth of Vijayanagar as the biggest factor in the continued dominance of Hinduism and Buddhism in SEA. (Jesuits and other rough riding sects of missionaries could theoretically have a much greater impact but would have to wait until the collapse of Hindu authority in the face of European encroachment)
The thing is comparing the Roman colonies to their OTL counterparts isn’t really a good comparison. Now that I think of it there are no good comparisons in OTL colonies to compare it to.
Looking at OTL honestly the best comparison; and it is a loose one; might be Scotland. These are distinct areas taken over by Rome with unique cultures but where the local culture/language is vastly diminished in favour of the dominant “parent” culture. But anyone who joins that parent culture is now considered a full equal not only in law but more importantly in public opinion.
Long term I think the most likely answer is these areas becoming constituent Kingdoms within the Roman Empire. Part of an internal trade zone and restrictions on foreign policy but otherwise with full internal autonomy. Armies and Navies are separate but with the same equipment, training, and doctrine and possibly even a unified Joint Chiefs.
No real OTL comparisons but think along the lines of a really really tightly knit EU one step short of United States of Europe. There is still a France and Germany with a French and German armed forces but no one would bat an eye if a Frenchman was commanding a German division or vice versa and there is no difference between the makeup of a German and French division. In addition on the ground there is no internal border.
@Basileus444 has created a system that is fundamentally different from all OTL colonies. It doesn’t rely on a tiny “metropolitan” elite since anyone who speaks Greek and is orthodox can join the “metro” population. But at the same time it isn’t a settler colony like Canada or the USA and Europeans will never be more than a small minority in any of the Roman areas. Instead what is happening and has been said will continue to happen is the locals will over generations become more and more Roman for the economic and social benefits until you reach a point where Taprobane, Pahang, and Heraklian Islands are all as Greek as perhaps Eastern Anatolia. The biggest difference being that instead of Kurds it will be Phillipinos, Malay, and Ceylonese who are the minority on a purely cultural basis.
At that point stick an imperial cousin on a local throne if it’s before the mid 19th century communications technology or integrate directly if its after that point.
Henri’s a good card player, who has also been dealt a really good hand, and is up against players who’ve made some big mistakes with their cards. That combination of factors is utterly devastating.
Although if it makes you feel better, Triune arrogance is about to irritate Vijayanagar, a decision that the Triunes will be regarding in a few years.
The Triunes will get some humbling in the future, although right now they are on the upswing overall.
It would be better (save for the Triunes). Any power vacuum in southwest Germany is going to be filled by the Triunes, not the Romans.
In a way, I have a bit of a soft spot for the Triunes, although that’s in the vein of finding them an interesting bad guy. Fun to write about, wouldn’t want to meet.
The Romans are certainly stretching their lines up to the breaking point.
Lotharingia is willing to help out with subsidies, but not even they can pay for their own army, navy, fortifications, as well as Spain’s. Those would help, but any big push by Spain needs to have the support of the Lisbon financiers.
There are Aragonese as soldiers in the Army of Observation, but no separate contingent.
Rhomania doesn’t loom as big in Arletian minds (except when they start poking around next door) simply because it’s farther away. Spain and the Triunes are much more prominent. Members of both factions can agree on the ideal of good relations with Rhomania, but it’s not considered that important of an issue.
The issue with the Romans raiding southwest Germany is that those resources were previously being deployed against the Triunes. Every Wittelsbach soldier shooting at them is one not shooting at the Triunes. The Triunes have the force to smash down southwest Germany by themselves, but that doesn’t mean the Romans should do their work for them.
The Polish peace takes place in the winter of 1635/36, so it hasn’t happened yet chronologically. These regional updates are overlapping time-wise as did the various “theater updates” earlier.
Yeah, Arles has some serious geopolitical problems facing them. Should be interesting in the Chinese sense.
The only way they’d be able to hold it would be by turning into pretty much OTL France. France-France has 3+ times the population of Arles. Northern France would quickly come to dominate the polity.
If the Roman army currently in Germany was suddenly ordered to switch sides and help the Wittelsbachs, while the officers might obey, very grudgingly, the common soldiery would down tools. Remember, these are mostly from the Bulgarian and Macedonian tagmata. Any Roman army actually helping the Wittelsbachs would need to be comprised of Anatolian troops who have less of a personal animus.
I can’t blame them much either. On a realpolitik level it is not wise, but I completely understand their actions.
They can definitely be political active, even in simple ways such as shouting in the Hippodrome, which has never ended up causing problems for a Byzantine Emperor. Public opinion can’t be ignored even by the Vicegerent of God on Earth. Also there are newspapers now that can publish articles criticizing government officials and policies, although there are certain risks there as has been established.
The Portuguese merchants would love that. They aren’t interested in helping defend themselves against the others, but the best case scenario for them would be the pair killing each other and then they loot the corpses.
I don’t know the first thing about OTL anime so can’t comment. But Japanese Christianity will definitely have some Buddhist & Shinto ‘flavoring’
It’d be hard to tell. The OTL Ottoman Empire is bigger with more people and material resources. TTL Rhomania is better organized, particularly economically and financially. Against the Holy League it would have problems; stalemate would probably be the end result.
Any equivalent to OTL decolonization is a long ways away, so I can’t say for certain since it depends on the details on the ground. That said, I did have an idea where a colony is causing trouble so the Romans release them, but then proceed to utterly ruin their economy so that the former colony turns into a basket case and then use that as an example/warning for anyone else getting ideas. Inspired by what the French did to Haiti.
Islam has expanded a little in Southeast Asia but far less compared to OTL. Aceh, the Semarang Sultanate, Brunei, and Sulu are Muslim, but the rest of Southeast Asia is still Hindu/Buddhist. A longer-lasting Majapahit pushed Islam back more ITTL, and there’s the example of the Vijayanagar Emperors. The latter are a direct model for the Rajas of Mataram.
I think much of the decolonization ITTL would be people who now identify as Roman of an eastern variety, wanting their polity to switch from a Katepanate to a Despotate, so they have a more locally-responsive and autonomous government but still remain within the overarching Roman sphere.
Modern Roman Emperors should look quite interesting after repeated intermarriages to members of the Ethiopian and Japanese Imperial houses.
Chapter 1 Part 3 of Not the End: The Empire under the Laskarids has been posted for Megas Kyr Patrons. In it I cover the new and improved POD, the education and mindset of Theodoros II Laskaris, and a bit on the economy of Nicaea.
Thank you again for your support.