An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
So Rhome's European borders are essentially set in stone and anyone who tries to move on them will deal with at least four nations, none of whom are weak. Once Lombardy is brought to heel, and likely joins the Accord, i.e the middle power alliance, then it will only be Africa and Asia that Rhome has to really focus on for the next century or so until things change.
 
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Hard to see this as anything but a huge expansion of power and influence. Rome will control/influence the entirety of the Balkan Peninsula + OTL Austria, Slovakia,Hungary and Southern Poland.

Between “most favoured nation” status and the chaos that is likely to envelop Germany, Poland, and Lombardy post war within a generation Hungary and Serbia will be economically locked with Rhomania. Also Roman control of the Belgrade fortress means the entire Roman defensive line is now in the hands of Romans. It is a huge boon to security and an even larger boon to the whole Balkan economy.

It will be interesting to see how this united economic area develops in the future. Between Rome, Egypt, Sicily, Libya, Georgia, Hungary, Vlachia, Serbia, Dalmatia, and Scythia you have got a potential trade area that has a potential to have 350-400million people in the modern day. It’s an area as large as the current EU and unlike the EU will have a clear “top dog” that will be able to set policy. Toss in the other Orthodox states in Russia and the Far East plus Ethiopia and it starts to become clear that Rome will continue to be a central nexus of the world.

It also becomes clear why Demetrios is the “forgotten” emperor. The Treaty of Belgrade has undoubtedly made Roman gains far more durable if not permanent rather than if he had attempted annexations but it won’t show on a map in the slightest and the boost that this will create to the Roman and Balkan economy won’t really become apparent for a generation as new relationships and trade routes are established. It’s likely that in addition to martial success against the Ottomans, Odysseus will also get the benefit of inheriting a booming economy and consequently get all the credit for it.

At this point the only true equal of Rome is the Triunes and I have doubts about their staying power. They have been blessed with a string of strong and capable rulers not unlike Rome had ITTL 13th and 14th centuries but unlike Rome they remain 3 distinct polities. All it will take is one ruler who doesn’t balance the competing interests/factions and a prolonged period of civil unrest or a sundering of the triple monarchy is a strong possibility.

Final thought not really related to update: I foresee a period of rapidly rising populations throughout the Haemic peninsula. Serbia, Vlachia, Hungary and the European provinces of Rome are all going to have defined and secure borders for the first time in centuries if not ever. In the same way Western Anatolia boomed once the Turks were driven into Mesopotamia so will the entire region boom now that Roman control and influence is firmly established and order of the region is clear.
 
I was listening to Holst while reading this, ha.

Well that sure solves the West, all that's left is Germany/Triunes/Poland. Two are leaderless, and the other shrewd. So I just feel like everything now until the Ottoman truce ending, is going to be a Rocky montage of Rhome getting ready to go berserker. With a heavy sprinkling of "Doing their part for the Empire" hype to the state news/propaganda.
 
That treaty is glorious. The Roman Presence on every one of the major border cities is a clever little coup, if only threatened by the potential of a souring of relations in the longest terms, though I note no consequences for forcing out the Roman garrison if the tripwire is considered a poor deal. Otherwise, a great situation. Plus, with the entirety of the Danube downstream of Vienna under a single treaty, this could transform the war-torn region into a magnificent economic artery, which more than simply a treaty, will tie this Quadpartite of Haemus together in a joint interest.

I can't help but think that economic (and cultural) integration might lead to greater adoption of Orthodoxy in the future, or if it will mean that Hungary has the Croatian Ban, and the Danubian Cities as two sub-realms to worry about in time.

*applause* beautifully done B444, as usual :)

Is there any word of a punitive campaign against the Germans? Or is this not on the cards under D3?

I love the Saturn and Jupiter metaphor, it makes a great veiled threat, and I do wonder if D3 knew that Jupiter was larger than Saturn, as it makes a really subtle threat that "We're bigger".

I can only be curious as to whether Neptune and Uranus might surprise them both in the future, or if we'll be surprised who fill those roles.
 
Something interesting to note is that Hungary has ceded their entire former coastline to Rhomania (and her vassals), as the importance of shipping in the world economy grows landlocked Hungary (does Serbia have a port/navy?) will become even more economically dependent on the Empire.
But it's a very good strategy, establishing a ring of client states rather than direct annexation/vassalisation. Perhaps after Ody's Persian adventure he sets up a bunch of kingdoms in Mesopotamia to serve as a Eastern buffer?
 
Something interesting to note is that Hungary has ceded their entire former coastline to Rhomania (and her vassals), as the importance of shipping in the world economy grows landlocked Hungary (does Serbia have a port/navy?) will become even more economically dependent on the Empire.
But it's a very good strategy, establishing a ring of client states rather than direct annexation/vassalisation. Perhaps after Ody's Persian adventure he sets up a bunch of kingdoms in Mesopotamia to serve as a Eastern buffer?

To be honest, with the east, I think Ody can and should go further.

Establish a Despotate in Mesopotamia, and then break Persia into other groups. I don't know the exact groups on the ground, but Armenia, Azeria, Fars, Istafan, Afghanistan, Baluchistan, etc. Use the same sort of treaty to ensure that Persia stays dead, whilst ensuring the wealthiest part (Mesopotamia) is more tightly coupled with Constantinople. Plus, it creates a (frankly absurd) defence in depth for the Romans against a natural post-division enemy in India.

What I would say is that whilst it might seem like this could work, my biggest concern is that this is probably a more expensive system to maintain as it is largely artificial, and doesn't have something like the Danube to create an economic artery to tie them together.

If that could be followed up with a similar project in Arabia, you probably have a quiet European West, a difficult Persian East, a less difficult Arabian South (though a Despotate of the Hedjaz would be great, for both trade, security, but also as a way for the Romans to financially benefit from the Hajj), leaving only an African West to really address.

This is all (obviously) predicated on total, or near total victories in both theatres, so I doubt it'd be safe to do till the Triunes are hamstrung, but it would grant the Romans absurd security in the long-term if successful. They'd basically be the Ottomans+Safavids of OTL, or comparable to the Rashidun/Abbassids. Not bad going IMO.

Unless Ody has more ambitious plans - this is the blood of Timur we're talking about. Samarkand Calls.
 
Loving TTL's version of the Danube Confederation. A battered Bohemia can be persuaded to join in the future to complete the set of aesthetically pleasing borders.

other planets as well within the universe
As well as stars which planets orbit around and the massive black holes at the center of galaxies. Modern day superpowers may include a new world polity, China and India and Rhomaion needs lots of friends and nutrition to be able to put up a fight.
 
great chapter,the war of roman succesion might be over in europe,but the war in both the East and the West will continue to grow bigger and more dangerous as time goes by,does emperor demetrios have any future plans or strategies to help expand the power,territory and influence of the japanse and mexican empires to maybe help counter the growing triune threat?

plus do you think we might se a double wedding between the royal heirs of the triune and the ottomon empire ?
 
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Being me my first thought with this treaty is less the political or military applications but the economic results of this sort of agreement. I have to wonder how the Danube, a major trade artery AND international boundary at the same time, is utilized. The treaty has tariff reductions and most favoured nation statuses involved but given its status as a boundary I'm not certain how applicable that will be downriver of Belgrade. Serbia, Vlachia, and Rhomania all share borders on the river that could cause issues for transportation. They aren't insurmountable but it is notable that merchants could pick and choose which side of the river to dock and pay port dues in. Even if tariffs are universal due to the most favoured nation status they can be completely avoided by simply not docking in one country over the other. There will be intense competition in the Danube between cities there to be attractive to riverine trade which aims to bring Hungarian goods to the Black Sea. Hungary controls both banks of its zone and so forces tariff revenues to go to the king, but the other three have to compete with each other for tariffs. I also have to question how this treaty may apply to the Danube's major tributaries. A small country like Serbia, strategically situated at the nexus of the Danube, Sava, and Morava rivers, will be particularly interested in this as well as the revenue due to how much transportation will pass by them and their own limited incomes as a smaller state. Reduced tariffs will impact them the most, at least proportionally.

Regardless though it is a good move in the right direction to making it easier to connect the interior Balkans with Constantinople economically through that great strength of soft power. It has clear limitations but baby steps first. Belgrade is going to the main victor here, not Rhome, as it will become an incredibly important middleman for Aegean markets. This will mirror its position in this time period as a part of the Ottoman Balkans whose borders reached as far as this treaty seems to generally encompass. Serbia will grow dramatically and may end up too big for their britches but if they are sufficiently integrated into Rhome I doubt they would grow into a problem at least until the age of nationalism, which is so far off as to might as well be irrelevant.
 
Neither Persia nor Arabia will ever accept to be under Roman dominion. Too homogeneous in religion and outlook against foreign invaders.

Mesopotamia, while more geographically closer is almost as hard to do with anything but an informal satellite, not a despotate. And without firm economic shackles it will break free in a couple of generations.

Meanwhile the Triunes are impervious to any Roman threat and can only be done by civil war, unlikely in the current circumstances.
 
Meanwhile the Triunes are impervious to any Roman threat and can only be done by civil war, unlikely in the current circumstances.
The Triunes have given Rome and its allies plenty of reason to attempt to recoup the costs incurred during the war by, well, aggressively collecting tariffs on Triune goods. At sea.

Rome doesn't need too big a presence in the Caribbean to be a nuisance, and if Rome commits to kicking the Triunes out of the Indian Ocean, they have the means and the allies to do it. I doubt Spanish and Arletian ships will begrudge them muscling out their competitors, and both Ethiopia and Vijayanagar would probably pile on if given the chance.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Meanwhile the Triunes are impervious to any Roman threat and can only be done by civil war, unlikely in the current circumstances.
The same could be said the other way around as well. I see the next few decades being similar to the Cold War, no direct confrontation in either core region but a lot of low level fighting at sea and the colonial regions with proxy wars aided by subsidies and token expeditionary forces.
 
Neither Persia nor Arabia will ever accept to be under Roman dominion. Too homogeneous in religion and outlook against foreign invaders.

The problem is that you can use that argument to suggest that Europe will always be united under some Catholic. Localised cultural differences can be a strong factor, as is self rule.

But it is why it'd be expensive in the short-medium term, as it is completely artificial, and has to be built. Not a "Lets do it next week" but as a long-term strategic goal? A huge network of buffer states made out of traditional Roman conflict zones is a strategic coup.

Mesopotamia, while more geographically closer is almost as hard to do with anything but an informal satellite, not a despotate. And without firm economic shackles it will break free in a couple of generations.

The Romans own Northern Mesopotamia directly already, and is economically bound to the Romans quite easily. Firstly as a major route for trade, but also because the Romans are a geographic market. However it isn't as tightly bound as Syria, more akin to Egypt, hence why I would say Despotate is as close as it gets, DESPITE the Romans already owning part of the region. Then again, you can consider the north and south distinct in the same was as Al-Jazira and Iraq, so it might be that the south is a despotate whilst the north is annexed.

Meanwhile the Triunes are impervious to any Roman threat and can only be done by civil war, unlikely in the current circumstances.

I mean, not really - the Romans are able to project naval power in the east, and now (with an ally in Mexico) are able to project naval power in the west. The Triunes fiscal supply lines are more vulnerable than they might appear as they haven't had to protect them against a determined foe, whilst the Roman ones are relatively (compared to the Triunes) secure.

Cut off the cash, and the Triunes will have significant problems, significantly quickly.
 
Let's also not forget that the Triunes are one bad ruler away from a civil war/Time of Troubles. I've made this point before but the Triunes are due a bad ruler or two - they've gotten pretty lucky in the Good King/Emperor Lottery for the past century or two. All it takes is a TTL version of OTL Henry VI for it all to go to hell pretty quickly.
 
@Cryostorm: That’s the goal. Africa by itself can be frustrating but isn’t a threat to the Roman Empire’s integrity, leaving just Asia. Which is where the greater opportunities await anyway.

@JSC: Going by ‘map view’, it looks even worse for Demetrios III’s reputation since on the map, the Empire has shrunk during his reign by this point (the losses in interior Syria which are much smaller than the gains in northern Mesopotamia). He accomplishes lots of things, but none are the sort that grab the attention of future generations.

The Triune political structure actually somewhat mirrors the Roman structure. There’s the big one, France (Roman heartland-the Empire proper), and then the two smaller ones England and Ireland (Sicily and Egypt). Although the connection between the Big One and the two smaller ones is definitely more stable and efficient in the Roman case, since it’s administrative rather than personal.

@Duke of Nova Scotia: Yeah, Rhomania’s definitely going to be settling down for the rest of the decade. Still lots happening, but nothing dramatic and epic. The rest of Europe may be a different story.

@RogueTraderEnthusiast: Constantinople, if it’s smart, would likely try to minimize Orthodox spread into Hungary. It’d risk either destabilizing what is supposed to be the front-line buffer state, or risk Buda seeing Constantinople as a greater threat than whatever’s the big boy in Central Europe. And if that happens, Buda may very well flip back to that big boy, and the Empire’s geopolitics in the area are back to 1630 settings.

There’ll be more on the plans for 1635 in the next update.

Demetrios must have. The ancients named Jupiter after the King of the gods, which one wouldn’t do if one wasn’t certain it was the biggest planet. Which makes me think the ancients already knew it was the largest back then, although I don’t know how.

The fracturing of Persia would be a largely artificial affair, as you pointed out, and it’d be one that would require constant maintenance. It’d probably end up like the Versailles Treaty, good if it can be enforced, except there isn’t the ability/will to enforce it. Marching an army to eastern Persia might happen once, but repeat performances are most unlikely.

It works both ways. The Triunes can pick at Roman trade in the east, which will hurt Roman finances too.

@ImperatorAlexander: Serbia has a port in Budva, which is its one sea outlet. There are a couple of small ships, but they’re more for enforcing customs and chasing smugglers, not for fighting a naval war. The Prince-Bishop of the Black Mountain (Zeta) also has control of Kotor, so a lot of seaborne trade in and out of Serbia actually goes through his hands.

A bunch of kingdoms in Mesopotamia may be too much. Mesopotamia isn’t that big and a weak buffer state is a bad buffer state. But a Mesopotamian buffer state would be really nice. Even if whoever is in Baghdad needs to be watched closer, penning the Ottomans up behind the Zagros would be really nice from Constantinople’s point of view.

@Βοανηργές: Bohemia’s too far into Europe for Constantinople to be willing to commit to defending. Vienna’s on the approach to Constantinople; Prague isn’t.

There’s probably going to be more astronomical references in the future. I’ve been on an astronomical binge lately.

@sebastiao: Mexico’s too far away for serious Roman power projection to do much. They can do some naval actions but that’s it. Japan can be boosted more, but Japan is a big player in its own right. A too powerful Japan may not always play Rhomania’s ball.

Marriage between the Triune and Ottoman Imperial families is extremely unlikely because of the religious differences. There was one exception with a Roman-Ottoman marriage, but that was an extremely rare case coming just after Andreas I’s reign. It’s not something that’ll become regular.

@Evilprodigy: At this stage Demetrios was focused on the political/military issues, with the economics as an afterthought. There’ll definitely be follow-up meetings with the various Foreign Secretaries, but the details of something like trade deals isn’t something early modern monarchs will get deep in to.

Although all the countries would have tariffs, albeit reduced ones. So a Hungarian barge that decides to land at a Vlach port will pay import dues there, and then if it doesn’t sell everything and crosses over to the Roman town on the other side of the river, it then pays import dues on those goods.

Another option could be joint tariff collection, where all tariffs collected in Section A are split evenly between the two parties.

@luis3007: Rhomania could smack Persia down, but I don’t see it being able to keep Persia down permanently. It’s too hard to project power past the Zagros. Mesopotamia’s a much easier proposition since it’s closer and smaller.

Arabia’s too annoying and unprofitable to be worth the effort.

@minifidel: There’s lot of potential for naval bickering between Rhomania and the Triunes. Neither can threaten the core territories of the other, but they can pick at the edges.

It wouldn’t be so easy in the Indian Ocean. The Spanish are rivals of the Triunes, but in eastern waters they have a longer history of rivalry with the Romans. They’d have a strong interest in preventing the one from destroying the other, lest the victor become too powerful and force the Spanish out as well.

@Curtain Jerker: Yeah, the issue with personal unions is that one lousy monarch can spoil the whole thing.
 
Given the Roman approach to Persia in the last war (raid and burn), the blood of Timur in the Sideroi and the pragmatic atrocities carried out by D3 in Syria, I'd say Persia proper is in for a rough time come the War of Wrath.

Seize Mesopotamia as a Despotate, and burn and wreck all the way to Samarkand and the Indus.
Doesn't matter if another Eastern entity replaces the Ottomans as a Eastern threat if they inherit a economically and demographically wrecked husk.
Maiming them for a generation or two could be the goal.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
So looking at Africa, Egypt is going to want to either go down to the first, near Aswan, or second, past Wadi Halfa, cataract. The second is a really good choice since anything past that to Khartoum is rather poor and undesirable aside from map painting. Where as Ethiopia will probably want to push to Rabak or Aba Island. The interesting point is how the two empires split the coast and set up their new land connection since Ethiopia is going one of the few long term allies of Rhome where I figure Rhome might guarantee no interference or colonies in Africa, Egypt and Carthage not counting, in exchange for the same for Asia from Ethiopia with mutual support. Ethiopia would likely agree since they seem set up to be a Russian/China style contiguous empire with little to no overseas colonies.

For Carthage, aside from kicking the Marinids back west and retaking the province of Africa I am not sure where is a good place for the border though personal preference would be to push all the way to, and maybe a bit past Constantine.
 
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For Carthage, aside from kicking the Marinids back west and retaking the province of Africa I am not sure where is a good place for the border though personal preference would be to push all the way to, and maybe a bit past Constantine.

See, my first instinct is to be greedy. Take it all, throw the Marinids into the desert. But that's a bit much.

Personally I'd say the target should be Algiers under direct control and the uplands eastward, but have the area around chott el hodna devolved to a client state. (Making it a good offering to anyone who wants to escape direct marinid rule) really good city to have as a naval base to control the western med, complete with ally/client state to protect it inland. All of which then acts as a buffer for the new lands near Constantine (in this hypothetical).
 
I agree, it sounds funny considering the WoRS is still winding down, and the WoWrath coming up, but now is the time to answer the Barbary question. The only other power that can/wants to do something is the Accord, and Rhome can't let any one of those powers controlling the South Med coast.
 
I agree, it sounds funny considering the WoRS is still winding down, and the WoWrath coming up, but now is the time to answer the Barbary question. The only other power that can/wants to do something is the Accord, and Rhome can't let any one of those powers controlling the South Med coast.

I wonder. Maybe the treaty can go further, and tie the Romans and Marinids together. Effectively the same land concessions, but in exchange for free passage of the strait of gibraltar for the Romans the Romans could offer the same border recognition and guarantee for the Marinids post-war. Securing naval access and a buffer state in Africa, in exchange for ensuring the survival of the Marinids, including against Spain.

Considering the brief Nikitas period rule of S.Spain, it could be interesting to have that relationship mirrored south of the strait.
 
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