Ammonia is not produced in large scale quantities

in 1909 (ish), Franz Haber discovered how to produce ammonia via industrial techniques to limit the importation of fertilizer from South America into Germany. His success during this time is what is credited to have kept Germany fed during the first three quarters of World War I by enabling Germany to continue to grow the food she required.

Lets say for some reason, Haber does not discover how to produce Ammonia in vast quantities needed by the German agriculture industry for whatever reason. Once World War I breaks out and Germany is blockaded by the Entente, she begins to suffer from the lack of food produced. What will this do to the overall war; will it end World War I faster (through the starvation of Germany), possibly before the fall of Russia and the entering of America into the war? Would the peace treaty made by the Entente be less harsh? Let's hear the ideas :)
 
germany would be done within one year... nitrates feed the shells and as we know ww1 requires a lot of shells even to stay on the defensive... they might even enter into negotiations after first champagne on the basis of pro ante....
 
I may be wrong, but most of the nitrates used in shell production went towards poison gas and the likes if I remember. Since there is no large scale industry in place to produce the chemicals necessary, poison gas might not even have time to make an appearance in the first World War.
 
The German war plan would have to be different. They can't risk bringing the British into the war against them, so no invasion of Belgium. The whole Schlieffen Plan may be nixed. Rather they should attack Russia first, seize as much farmland as possible before the Russian army can mobilize. The French frontier should be fortified and defended.

In hindsight we know the French will not break through the German lines. The German and A-H armies would probably beat the Russians in less than a year.
 
I may be wrong, but most of the nitrates used in shell production went towards poison gas and the likes if I remember. Since there is no large scale industry in place to produce the chemicals necessary, poison gas might not even have time to make an appearance in the first World War.
You're wrong.
Nitrates were (and still are) used as fertiliser, and to make explosives. The main chemical weapons used in WW1 were chlorine, phosgene and mustard gas. None of these contain nitrogen or require nitrates or nitric acid to manufacture. The main military explosives in use at the time were highly-nitrated aromatic compounds, which do require nitrate to make (the British used picric acid, the Germans used TNT).

As the OP said, before Haber the main source of nitrate was South American guano deposits. British control of the seas cut the Germans off from these.
 
in 1909 (ish), Franz Haber discovered how to produce ammonia via industrial techniques to limit the importation of fertilizer from South America into Germany. His success during this time is what is credited to have kept Germany fed during the first three quarters of World War I by enabling Germany to continue to grow the food she required.

Lets say for some reason, Haber does not discover how to produce Ammonia in vast quantities needed by the German agriculture industry for whatever reason. Once World War I breaks out and Germany is blockaded by the Entente, she begins to suffer from the lack of food produced. What will this do to the overall war; will it end World War I faster (through the starvation of Germany), possibly before the fall of Russia and the entering of America into the war? Would the peace treaty made by the Entente be less harsh? Let's hear the ideas :)

It's Fritz Haber, not Franz. If people wanted to look up info on him.
 
Without the Haber process, the war ends after two years with the complete defeat of the Central Powers. They wouldn't change their plans, as those plans assumed the war would be short enough that their stockpiles of nitrates would last.
 

Thande

Donor
You're wrong.
Nitrates were (and still are) used as fertiliser, and to make explosives. The main chemical weapons used in WW1 were chlorine, phosgene and mustard gas. None of these contain nitrogen or require nitrates or nitric acid to manufacture. The main military explosives in use at the time were highly-nitrated aromatic compounds, which do require nitrate to make (the British used picric acid, the Germans used TNT).

As the OP said, before Haber the main source of nitrate was South American guano deposits. British control of the seas cut the Germans off from these.

You have done well, my young apprentice (at chemistry-gahhing) ;)
 
You're wrong.
Nitrates were (and still are) used as fertiliser, and to make explosives. The main chemical weapons used in WW1 were chlorine, phosgene and mustard gas. None of these contain nitrogen or require nitrates or nitric acid to manufacture. The main military explosives in use at the time were highly-nitrated aromatic compounds, which do require nitrate to make (the British used picric acid, the Germans used TNT).

Thank you, I was unsure about that point.

And thanks too for the name correction Sovereign12, I had a hard time hearing the correct name during my chem class :p.

Seeming as the war would end much faster than it did, with the Russian empire still largely intact and no large scale loss in life compared to OTL, wouldn't it be possible that a peace treaty would be less harsh than our timeline, probably allowing Germany to rebuild, keep her monarchy (Kaiser) and start getting 'frisky' again within about a decade/15 years? After all, I do not think she would look kindly upon losing the war from starvation and being stripped of her empire. (IMO, I doubt the Entente would let her keep her colonies if they won the war).
 
haber also developed the gases that where so lethal... he was a chemistry genius... i would think germany would be much more careful in its relations with neutrals since it would be dependant on them for their nitrates... they might develop more disguised commerce ships and uboat cargo ships to import the nitrates in... also they may make a nice propoganda windfall out of it... :germans starve due to brits blockading american goods: think rape of belgium in reverse
 
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