Ameriwank: Continental Navy Version 2.0

OKay for those who are not familiar with the first thread here it is.

http://https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=81258

So I've decided to revisit the idea with a more realistic edge.

Aug. 1775 at George Washington's urging Rhode Island equips a small squadron to seize a stockpile of gun powder on the island of Bermuda. The raid is successful and Washington receives the powder.

Sept. 1775 The Continental Congress decides that despite it being the maddest idea in the world it would still be prudent(following Rhode Island's example)to at least attempt to harass the British at sea while also seizing important supplies for the Continental Army.

POD there is also a decision taken that it wold be unwise to dilute power in the hands of a few unaccountable individuals, rather than have a single man accountable to the Congress. Thus Robert Morris is made Executive for Naval Affairs.

Congress authorizes the construction of 13 frigates and the fitting out of ships for expeditions against the Bahamas and Quebec. A force also sails to the Chesapeake with the intent of putting and end to Lord Dunmore's piratical tyranny.

Nov. 1775

Quebec HMS Lizard(24) and HMS Hunter(12) lay at anchor above Quebec attempting to interdict any crossing of the St. Lawrence by Arnold. However with a good westerly wind at their backs and American squadron comprising the Alfred(24), Columbus(20) sail up the St. Lawrence pass the batteries at cape diamont too engage the British men-of-war. After a furious half-hour engagement both the of His Majesties ships strike their colors. the Continental proceed to mop up the rest of the British traffic in the St. Lawrence seizing the many British merchant men and replenishing Arnold's flagging numbers the Continentals and their prizes set sail towards Boston before their enclosed by winter ice.

Dec. 1775 while bombarding Norfolk, Virginia Lord Dunmore's squadron is spies through his scope a number of ships flying the British ensign moving towards his not thinking anything of it until when the ships are nearly on top of him they open raking fired into his ships after just over 15 minutes of fighting the British squadron capitulates.

That same night Arnold and Montgomery storm Quebec.

Note:in OTL HMS Lizard mounted a carronade killed Montgomery and halted the American assault.

1776
March 3-17 Nassau in the Bahamas is raided by Continental Ships

Jan-March The 13 Frigates authorized by Congress are launched and put to sea.
 

MrP

Banned
Thirteen frigates? Isn't that an awful lot of wood and guns? Not so many as a load of first rates, of course, but still . . .
 
Thirteen frigates? Isn't that an awful lot of wood and guns? Not so many as a load of first rates, of course, but still . . .

Well the wood and naval supplies to build the ships are there...the guns are a bit trickier. But if it was a tiered order for say 3~4 ships then 3~4 more and so on until the 13 are built should be doable. The guns could be slowly manufactured in the Americas or bought off say the Dutch.
 
The Continental Navy built 13 frigates in OTL and they did not accomplish very much. In fact, most were lost by the end of the war.
 

MrP

Banned
Well the wood and naval supplies to build the ships are there...the guns are a bit trickier. But if it was a tiered order for say 3~4 ships then 3~4 more and so on until the 13 are built should be doable. The guns could be slowly manufactured in the Americas or bought off say the Dutch.

I fear the original thread's problem that every gun bought for the fleet is one (or more, given the size of them!) not available for the Continental Army. Although I think you might be right about the wood, since someone must've been building ships in the pre-USA at the time.
 
The Continental Navy built 13 frigates in OTL and they did not accomplish very much. In fact, most were lost by the end of the war.

I thought the premise was in addition to the ones already built in OTL. :confused:

I fear the original thread's problem that every gun bought for the fleet is one (or more, given the size of them!) not available for the Continental Army. Although I think you might be right about the wood, since someone must've been building ships in the pre-USA at the time.

Well Maine was a major supplier of timber for ships and other naval supplies.

That's part of it but I suppose the American navy could give the new ships minimal guns, run a false flag, and go to a European port somewhere and buy cannon there.
 

MrP

Banned
That's part of it but I suppose the American navy could give the new ships minimal guns, run a false flag, and go to a European port somewhere and buy cannon there.

I just mean in terms of available cash, old boy. Give it to the captains of these frigates to spend on guns, and it won't be there to pay the wages of the Continental Army, nor give them powder and shot.
 

Philip

Donor
I just mean in terms of available cash, old boy. Give it to the captains of these frigates to spend on guns, and it won't be there to pay the wages of the Continental Army, nor give them powder and shot.

I am not convinced you can even find the money to give to these captains. The Continental Army never had enough supplies as it was.
 
Since the US commanders of the existing 13 did rather poorly where is the US supposed to even find another 13 captains and crews of competence?

That's over 5000 men, nearly half the Continental Army in 1778.
 
The thirteen frigates I'm mentioning are the ones that existed in OTL. In OTL they were all constructed relatively quickly but outfitting them with proper armaments proved to be a challenge, thats were Robert Morris comes in.

Robert Morris(arguably the richest man in the colonies)knew quite a lot about ships and the type of men needed too run them efficiently and effectively. In OTL Robert Morris was appointed Agent of the Marine in 1781 too late in the war too make a difference. I'm figuring with his reputation he could also assist the Congress in floating a loan from the Netherlands aimed at fitting out the frigates. He'd also have enough clout with the Congress to get proper captains appointed.

I know I should have stated this earlier...sorry guys.:eek:
 
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1776

Jan-Jun.
The original 13 frigates are launched and put to sea. Hancock(32), Raleigh(32), Warren(32), Washington(32), Randolph(32), Providence(28), Trumbull(28), Congress(28), Virginia(28), Effingham(28), Boston(24), Montgomery(24), Delaware(24).

March 2-17 A Continental squadron under the command of Esek Hopkins raids the Bahamas capturing a large amount of heavy cannon and gun powder(doesn't get away like in OTL).

March-Apr. After the British evacuation of Boston they hastily sail towards Halifax(not hanging around for fear of a night boarding by Yankee seamen). However the Scottish brigade, roughly 3,000 men, sailing to Boston in a number of transports is captured too a man as the result of the premature evacuation.

April 4-6. As the American squadron returning from the Bahamas encounters and captures HMS Hawk(6), HMS Bolton(8) a ketch, and HMS Glasgow(20).

Jan-May. After the seizure of Quebec, Arnold constructs a ramshackle "fleet" of gondolas(gunboats)and row galley's augmented with various captured sail craft.

Battle of the St. Lawrence
As the first embarkation(as Lord Germaine called it)consisting of the HMS Isis(50), and two sixth-raters sail up the St. Lawrence to relieve-retake Quebec, they encounter odd craft coming out of an nearby harbor. Moving closer to investigate they are soon fired upon by the craft which abruptly turn about face and head back in the direction from which the came.

The British commander sensing an easy kill orders his ships into action and sails headlong into a well concealed trap. The British men of war find themselves in a shallow harbor and quickly run aground. Soon they are attempting to repel boarding parties, but soon realize that they are completely outmatched. After striking their colors, the British ships are taken into the rapidly expanding Continental Navy.
 
Pretty cool. I'm interested, but I do think that also the more ships crewed means less for the army and less supplies too. Unless they use them for spare wood or whatever, meh, just an observation though.
 
The Continental Army never numbered more than 20,000 men(around 1% of the general population). In OTL, the Continental Navy had a lot of trouble recruiting largely because of the proliferation of privateers. Its possible that Robert Morris could convince the Congress to push the individual states to restrict issuing letters of marque or get the Congress to take over the authorization of privateers(the former seems like a much more realistic possibility).
 
June 1776

Fall of Quebec: The "second embarkation" under the command of Maj Gen. John Burgoyne sails up the St. Lawrence with over 4,000 British soldiers and Hessian mercenaries. Burgoyne seizes Point Levi and the Isle d' Orleans, then moves up river to cut the American's lines of communication. Maj Gen. Montgomery fearing such a movement orders the evacuation of Quebec, and at Arnold's urging abandons Canada and withdraws to Isle aux Noix.

Battle of Charleston: Sir Henry Clinton's southern expedition begins its assault on South Carolina. His force consists of the HMS Bristol(50), HMS Experiment(5), HMS Solebay, Syren, Active, and Actaeon all 28-gun frigates, with the Sphynx(20), Friendship(18) and the bomb-ketch Thunderer(not to be confused with the vessel of the same name serving on Lake Champlain).

As the battle begins Clinton land had force on Long Island. However the British met stiff resistance and to their dismay realize that the island is of lower elevation in the middle and at high tide effectively becomes two islands becomes two islands. Thwarted on land, Gen. Clinton pins his hopes on Commodore Parker 's assault from the sea. The British fleet had to wait for high tide to move their vessels over the bar, and even at that the Bristol and Experiment had to be lightened with the temporary removal of their cannon.

Met with an heavy and accurate cannonade Sphynx, Syren, and Acteon all run aground and receive heavy damage. HMS Bristol is also severely damaged. Commodore Parker subsequently call off the attack. As the British prepare to set sail, Esek Hopkins squadron appears outside the harbor. Parker sends his smaller frigates and supporting warships to engage Hopkins. Hopkins Squadron however has been reinforced with the 4 new frigates Hancock, Boston, Montgomery and Delaware in addition to the Lizard(captured near Quebec).

Parker cannot bring his heavy frigates into action as they are to heavy to cross the bar even at high tide without removing their armaments. The battle is fairly short as most of the ships sent against Hopkins are already damaged and/or undermanned. With in an hour, the British squadron surrenders and with it Clinton's landing force is also compelled to capitulate.
 

Hyperion

Banned
This defeat at Charleston is going to be a major boost for the Colonial government right at the time that the Declaration of Independence is coming about.

Something to note, the land forces under Clinton at Charleston numbered around 2,700 troops. Also, in addition to the ten or so warships at Charleston, the British had 10 or so transports for the army there as well. A defeat like this could go a long way to ending the war much sooner.
 
Jun-Sept 1776

Lake Champlain: Benedict Arnold constructs a fleet of row galley's and gondolas augmented by several sailing vessels.

July-Aug 1776

New York: A massive British armada, under the command of Lord Howe, assembles in New York harbor, in preparation to support the British Army's plan to seize the city, and then move up the Hudson against Albany in conjunction with a northern offensive down Lake Champlain.

July 4th 1776

Silas Talbot in a daring fire ship attack sets fire to and destroys HMS Asia.

Sept 1776

The Turtle under the command of Ezra Bushnell(the brother of the Turtle's designer, David Bushnell)successfully attacks HMS Eagle.

Oct. 11-13 1776

Battle of Valcour Island:

Benedict Arnold skillfully conceals his "fleet" behind Valcour Island. Arnold's lookouts spot the British squadron sailing southward with a strong northerly wind at its back, Arnold patiently allows the British men-of-war to pass. Then the unarmed and undefended transports come into view, Arnold springs the trap and moves his fleet out to pounce on its hapless prey.

The British commander sees to his horror the spectacle unfolding to his rear and desperately attempts to bring his ships into action, however to no avail(his vessels are ship rigged). After the days slaughter of the transports, Arnold moves his fleet back into its original anchorage.

The next day's battle is fairly indecisive though Arnold knows he can't remain in his anchorage. During the night he passes his ships through the British lines. However, the weather conspires against Arnold and the British are soon able to catch him up. Arnold scuttles his fleet.

Nov 9. 1776

The Continental Congress authorizes the construction of three 74-gun ships of-the line and five 36-gun frigates.
 
The odds of the Continental Congress being able to build so many ships so quickly, arm them, crew them, train them and do it all without the RN noticing anything going on in a country where nearly half the population is either pro-British or neutral...let's just say having a dozen Los Angeles class SSNs show up is only marginally less plausible.
 
I wouldn't go that far Grimm, but I do agree it would be quite a feat to keep those ships supplied/crewed/trained....granted however the TL has Ameriwank as part of the title, meh.
 
Manning the ships is the main issue for the Continentals. I'm thinking that a lot of the captured RN ships could be stripped of cannon and other usable material for the oufitting of newer warships, or more valuable captures.
 
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