So, for the most part things are looking good for Bryan's last term. But, I get the feeling things involving France and Spain are going to make things complicated going forward.
America's Silver Era, The Story of William Jennings Bryan
- Thread starter CELTICEMPIRE
- Start date
The Japanese have a chance to be smarter here. Hopefully the military hardliners don't take over.
Two things to keep in mind regarding this TL:
-We're going to start seeing a lot more character that didn't exist in real life show up as the 1920s progress. Some people born after the POD, but some whose names have been lost to history so to speak. I don't think it's very realistic for the people who are famous in TTL 1920s to be the same exact people who were famous in OTL 1920s. There will still be familiar faces, however. And every person who was president up through Eisenhower will be mentioned at least once.
-This TL can be broken down into four parts. We are reaching the end of part 3. After part 4 is finished (which will be the late 1930s), the timeline will officially end. However, that doesn't mean that I won't write any more. After the official chapter are done, I will take requests. If you want me to write more on a character, a country, or about culture or technology, just tell me and I'll be glad to do so. One thing I'll probably write about is the development of Alaska, especially with regards to its Jewish population.
-We're going to start seeing a lot more character that didn't exist in real life show up as the 1920s progress. Some people born after the POD, but some whose names have been lost to history so to speak. I don't think it's very realistic for the people who are famous in TTL 1920s to be the same exact people who were famous in OTL 1920s. There will still be familiar faces, however. And every person who was president up through Eisenhower will be mentioned at least once.
-This TL can be broken down into four parts. We are reaching the end of part 3. After part 4 is finished (which will be the late 1930s), the timeline will officially end. However, that doesn't mean that I won't write any more. After the official chapter are done, I will take requests. If you want me to write more on a character, a country, or about culture or technology, just tell me and I'll be glad to do so. One thing I'll probably write about is the development of Alaska, especially with regards to its Jewish population.
I admit I'm especially interested in hearing that last part, being Jewish myself. But other than that, I do look forward to seeing how the remainder of TTL plays out.
I'd like to see how Kaiser Wilhelm deals with calls for Democratic reform in Germany. Given the war will likely have destroyed the ability for the army to be used to stop civil unrest, a system where the Kaiser's powers are more like an American executive with a powerful legislature would be interesting.
Also, I wonder how Austria-Hungary will keep itself going as an Empire due to the ethnic tensions not going away, and how Poland is doing as an independent, if German-aligned, nation
There's no need to strengthen Democracy in early 1900's Germany. Everything will be fine!
It would be quite interesting to see Herman Goering as a major political figure in the German Empire. After all, he was a distinguished fighter pilot. I wonder what all the big Nazis are up to
FillyofDelphi
Banned
There's no need to strengthen Democracy in early 1900's Germany. Everything will be fine!
To be fair, Germany kind of suffered from the disorganized elements of democracy gone mad (Constant elections, overproliferation of political parties, slim majority cohalition governments forced by having all those parties built on fragile bases that lead to frequent government collapses and an inability to build long-term plans and legislation as a result... a vicious cycle resulting). Having some strong central authority was nessicery, and by keeping it in the hands of the Kaiser and Aristocracy who have greater legitimacy and interest in radically overturning the existing structure, is probably going to help keep things finner than IRL.
The Kaiser will not want to give up too much of his power, and their victory wouldn't give a complete impetus to threatening the formation of a republic. That's why I think having Wilhelm II become a monarchical version of the US President might work
Chaotic corrupt and inefficient democracy isn't enlightened democracy. It's basically the political situation of a chaotic third world country before the rise of a dictatorial strongman. Also, most changes lead to better results for Germany than OTL. I believe following OTL would have lead to "literally Hitler".
FillyofDelphi
Banned
Hence why I said the elements of democracy gone mad, without organization. Weimer was a still a democracy in every way that counted in terms of defining government structure and practice; the fact that it wasen't "enlightened" in the sense that it produced effective and representative results in the form of legislation at an efficient doesn't make it any less "democratic", any more than any any other group misusing/being unable to use efficiently any other tool.
If I don't know how to drive a steamshovel, and thus prove unable to complete the construction project that would otherwise be completed in more competent hands, does putting me in the control seat cause it to cease to be a steamshovel? But that's just semantics; I'm merely saying throwing "More Democracy!" than our timeline on Germany is probably not solution to reforming the German government in this timeline.
If democracy were a currency, I would be asking to strengthen the currency, not add more currency to inflate it up. Strengthening Democratic institutions is vital for a healthy democracy. An unhealthy chaotic democracy leads to Hitler. Now do you want a constitutional monarchy for the Kaiser adds stability is one thing. I am not really arguing with your point. I just commented that weak democracies lead to a bad result.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
And what is the primary fiscal tool governments have to strengthen their own currency? Those that accumulate it from the economy and into centralized control to produce deflation/counter-inflationary pressures. Less for the public, more for the central bank!
Personally, I'd say the best reforms to push through aren't those that strengthen the Monarchy, per say. Those that fits the needs and political message sent by the war effort are those that strengthen the central Imperial government at the expense of the component Kingdoms, Prussia included, some of which flows to the Kaiser but the lion's share going to the Reichstag. Use that increased influence to head off any demands for radical reform, funnel some to the more conservative/bureaucratic maintenance minded areas of governing such as the judiciary and executive-appointed departments, ect. And from what I'm getting out of this timeline's Germany, such a move fits the attitudes of the leadership
Chapter XLI, 1922
The year 1922 in America was dominated by three things; race, communism, and elections. And the first two were intrinsically linked to the third. The issue of prohibition largely had to take the back seat, although it did play a minor role during the midterm elections. Republican Party leaders believed that 1922 would be the most important midterm elections in American history. If the party, already in a very weak condition, lost seats again it would be a bad sign for its future viability. Some Socialists were hoping for the collapse of the GOP, which could make their party the alternative to the Democrats. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan would be dragged into the internal conflicts within the Democratic Party.
-Excerpt from America's Silver Age, Edward S. Scott, Patriot Publishers, 2017.
New Jersey and Pennsylvania had tried to restrict the activities of far-left organizations. Their defense was that these groups were trying to subvert the government and foster revolution. Local Socialist Labor Party (SLP) organizations were targeted as well as some trade unions. In Johnson v. Palmer, the Supreme Court struck down such laws as unconstitutional. New justice Clarence Darrow was adamant that the socialists be given the same rights as other political groups. In July, it was discovered that the New York SLP had a list of Democratic candidates in the state that were close enough ideologically and that socialist candidates should not run against them. Several of these Democrats were well aware of the agreement as well. Republican-friendly publications had a field day. The New York GOP would be out in full-force come November.
(Bolton Hall, US Representative, was the highest ranking Democrat on the list)
This was not the only story negatively affecting Democrats. Years earlier, a Massachusetts paper of ill repute reported stories of Vice President Walsh sexually harassing young boys. In 1922, more reputable publications picked up the story and ran with it. The story was most likely fake, but a large number of people believed it. This, along with Walsh’s Catholicism, would make his planned presidential run in 1924 much harder. Many today and many back then, believe that Walsh was a homosexual. The general consensus among historians is that he probably was, but there isn’t enough evidence to conclusively say he was. The strange part is that William Jennings Bryan, who almost certainly had a highly negative view of homosexuality, made no direct mention of it when giving his brother Charles reasons why Walsh shouldn’t be the next president.
Some believed the story, others did not. Walsh denied it and most Democrats thought the story was a pathetic excuse for journalism. Milford Howard, however, suggested that the government take legal action against those who published the story. Bryan rebuked Howard and said that America is a country with a free press. He was reminded of recent events in France. Newspaper editors were arrested for publishing articles about Prime Minister Cartier praying to Satan. He did not want the same to happen in America. Walsh himself did not want to draw any more attention to the issue. Bryan became increasingly convinced that Milford Howard should not be nominated in 1924. As his fourth term went on, he believed that Charles W. Bryan, his younger brother, was the best man to be his successor.
(Charles W. Bryan)
The Ben Tillman society and its various offshoots became impossible to ignore. Many Democratic politicians and candidates declared affiliation with these groups. David Walsh and many other Democrats condemned the organization and its use of violence. Bryan denounced violence and declared that anyone who engages in violence should be prosecuted, even if they are an elected official. He stopped short of condemning the entire organization, however. Republicans and socialists, on the other hand, almost universally opposed the Ben Tillman Society, the White Workers Association, and the revived Klan. They would tie Democrats to those groups as much as possible during their congressional campaigns. In many instances, it would work well.
Several Ben Tillman Society members were already souring on Bryan. House Speaker William Kitchin had become a member himself. Though Bryan declared he was not seeking a fifth term, he wanted to make sure he wouldn’t. As per the 20th Amendment to the United States Constitution, a national referendum can be held on issues of “national importance.” He made common cause with Republicans to put a referendum to limit a president to two terms. It would require two-thirds support to be binding, but a clear majority would still be considered a mandate for a constitutional amendment. In order to not inspire high Republican turnout, the date was set to 1923. The bill was supported by the vast majority of Republicans and Socialists, along with almost half of Democrats.
Democratic Party leaders knew that 1922 was not going to be a repeat of 1920. However, they were confident that they would still comfortably control both houses after the votes were counted. Senate Leader Theodore Bell said to Bryan “We’re going to lose a little over a dozen House seats and at least one Senate seat. We’re going to lose control of a few state legislatures as well.” He was technically correct when he said that Democrats would lose at least one Senate seat. They lost 12 and his own seat was lost to Herbert Hoover. Democrats lost close to 100 seats in the House of Representatives. In New York and Pennsylvania, the party was routed at the ballot box. The GOP even had some successes in the upper South.
The Democrats’ numbers were reduced to 275 in the House and 55 in the Senate. The Republicans increased their numbers to 214 in the House and 41 in the Senate. Republicans had successfully portrayed the average Democrat as being a fire-eater, a closet Communist, or both. The more competitive (compared to 1920) elections allowed the Socialist Labor Party to more than double its number of Representatives to 11. In the Oregon State legislature, Democrats were forced to make a coalition with the Socialists in order to maintain their majority. In the Indiana State House of Representatives, Republicans and Democrats formed a “Patriotic Coalition” rather than ally with the Socialists.
Even though Democrats still held majorities in both Houses, many Republicans celebrated the results. The Grand Old Party seemed on the brink of collapse only two years earlier. 1922 was a reminder that the Republican Party was still a force to be reckoned with. Democrat leaders were in shellshock, trying to figure out how they lost so much. White supremacist groups determined that they would resort to intimidating voters and politicians. Several elected officials who campaigned on opposing violent racist organizations received death threats. Democratic presidential hopefuls, of which there were many, began to realize that winning the nomination in 1924 would not guarantee them victory in the general election.
-Excerpt from America's Silver Age, Edward S. Scott, Patriot Publishers, 2017.
New Jersey and Pennsylvania had tried to restrict the activities of far-left organizations. Their defense was that these groups were trying to subvert the government and foster revolution. Local Socialist Labor Party (SLP) organizations were targeted as well as some trade unions. In Johnson v. Palmer, the Supreme Court struck down such laws as unconstitutional. New justice Clarence Darrow was adamant that the socialists be given the same rights as other political groups. In July, it was discovered that the New York SLP had a list of Democratic candidates in the state that were close enough ideologically and that socialist candidates should not run against them. Several of these Democrats were well aware of the agreement as well. Republican-friendly publications had a field day. The New York GOP would be out in full-force come November.
(Bolton Hall, US Representative, was the highest ranking Democrat on the list)
This was not the only story negatively affecting Democrats. Years earlier, a Massachusetts paper of ill repute reported stories of Vice President Walsh sexually harassing young boys. In 1922, more reputable publications picked up the story and ran with it. The story was most likely fake, but a large number of people believed it. This, along with Walsh’s Catholicism, would make his planned presidential run in 1924 much harder. Many today and many back then, believe that Walsh was a homosexual. The general consensus among historians is that he probably was, but there isn’t enough evidence to conclusively say he was. The strange part is that William Jennings Bryan, who almost certainly had a highly negative view of homosexuality, made no direct mention of it when giving his brother Charles reasons why Walsh shouldn’t be the next president.
Some believed the story, others did not. Walsh denied it and most Democrats thought the story was a pathetic excuse for journalism. Milford Howard, however, suggested that the government take legal action against those who published the story. Bryan rebuked Howard and said that America is a country with a free press. He was reminded of recent events in France. Newspaper editors were arrested for publishing articles about Prime Minister Cartier praying to Satan. He did not want the same to happen in America. Walsh himself did not want to draw any more attention to the issue. Bryan became increasingly convinced that Milford Howard should not be nominated in 1924. As his fourth term went on, he believed that Charles W. Bryan, his younger brother, was the best man to be his successor.
(Charles W. Bryan)
The Ben Tillman society and its various offshoots became impossible to ignore. Many Democratic politicians and candidates declared affiliation with these groups. David Walsh and many other Democrats condemned the organization and its use of violence. Bryan denounced violence and declared that anyone who engages in violence should be prosecuted, even if they are an elected official. He stopped short of condemning the entire organization, however. Republicans and socialists, on the other hand, almost universally opposed the Ben Tillman Society, the White Workers Association, and the revived Klan. They would tie Democrats to those groups as much as possible during their congressional campaigns. In many instances, it would work well.
Several Ben Tillman Society members were already souring on Bryan. House Speaker William Kitchin had become a member himself. Though Bryan declared he was not seeking a fifth term, he wanted to make sure he wouldn’t. As per the 20th Amendment to the United States Constitution, a national referendum can be held on issues of “national importance.” He made common cause with Republicans to put a referendum to limit a president to two terms. It would require two-thirds support to be binding, but a clear majority would still be considered a mandate for a constitutional amendment. In order to not inspire high Republican turnout, the date was set to 1923. The bill was supported by the vast majority of Republicans and Socialists, along with almost half of Democrats.
Democratic Party leaders knew that 1922 was not going to be a repeat of 1920. However, they were confident that they would still comfortably control both houses after the votes were counted. Senate Leader Theodore Bell said to Bryan “We’re going to lose a little over a dozen House seats and at least one Senate seat. We’re going to lose control of a few state legislatures as well.” He was technically correct when he said that Democrats would lose at least one Senate seat. They lost 12 and his own seat was lost to Herbert Hoover. Democrats lost close to 100 seats in the House of Representatives. In New York and Pennsylvania, the party was routed at the ballot box. The GOP even had some successes in the upper South.
The Democrats’ numbers were reduced to 275 in the House and 55 in the Senate. The Republicans increased their numbers to 214 in the House and 41 in the Senate. Republicans had successfully portrayed the average Democrat as being a fire-eater, a closet Communist, or both. The more competitive (compared to 1920) elections allowed the Socialist Labor Party to more than double its number of Representatives to 11. In the Oregon State legislature, Democrats were forced to make a coalition with the Socialists in order to maintain their majority. In the Indiana State House of Representatives, Republicans and Democrats formed a “Patriotic Coalition” rather than ally with the Socialists.
Even though Democrats still held majorities in both Houses, many Republicans celebrated the results. The Grand Old Party seemed on the brink of collapse only two years earlier. 1922 was a reminder that the Republican Party was still a force to be reckoned with. Democrat leaders were in shellshock, trying to figure out how they lost so much. White supremacist groups determined that they would resort to intimidating voters and politicians. Several elected officials who campaigned on opposing violent racist organizations received death threats. Democratic presidential hopefuls, of which there were many, began to realize that winning the nomination in 1924 would not guarantee them victory in the general election.
Liking how the term limit issue is being addressed. And how the Socialists are emerging as an actual third major party.