America's culture without 9/11

Something occurred to me today. Without 9/11, public affairs shows in the U.S. will continue to be broadcast without noting military deaths abroad.

Beyond that, the scrolling ticker at the bottom of various news programs would never have come into being. It, too, was a product of 9/11.
 
Beyond that, the scrolling ticker at the bottom of various news programs would never have come into being. It, too, was a product of 9/11.

As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, no it wasn't. Sports news and Financial news had been using it for some time.

Torqumada
 
Yes. As for "true crime" on TV I never said it was a product of 9/11,
I said its proliferation was. Yes, some "true crime" documentaries had always been present, but, from some time after 9/11 onwards, there seemed to be nothing else on Discovery, and after a short while, National Geographic started doing the same. Fairly recently, the wave seems to have lost some momentum.

I never said you said it was a product of 9/11. I just don't see the link between 9/11 and this genre of TV. I think that it's easily possible that they still could have become popular: they're fairly inexpensive to produce and they're attractive to certain segments of our population, the perfect recipe for producers who are desperate to find content for a channel that is running out of money for shows which actually fit their specialization.

But, butterflies are butterflies, and I suppose it's conceivable that some other fad takes its place just because some producer doesn't follow the same path to work every day, but the same could be said for any of the hundreds of other cable television fads.

Beyond that, the scrolling ticker at the bottom of various news programs would never have come into being. It, too, was a product of 9/11.

I swear I remember these things on Headline News going back to the first Gulf War.

But, I guess they did become a lot more widespread. But, it might just be that they don't arise until some other big news event happens, maybe the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or Hurricane Katrina, or even just a majorly contested election.
 
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I swear I remember these things on Headline News going back to the first Gulf War.

But, I guess they did become a lot more widespread. But, it might just be that they don't arise until some other big news event happens, maybe the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or Hurricane Katrina, or even just a majorly contested election.

...or the war on Iraq. I am fairly convinced that the Bush II administration would pull that one off anyways.
 
theyd probably have found something, assuming it was an inside job. for a not-conspiracy-oriented cause, maybe an invasion by iraq on another country? human rights something-or-other?
 
...or the war on Iraq. I am fairly convinced that the Bush II administration would pull that one off anyways.

If one makes that contention, then it may as well be argued that a Gore administration would have done the same, given the building of tensions between the Clinton administration and the Iraqi regime toward the end of the former.
 
If one makes that contention, then it may as well be argued that a Gore administration would have done the same, given the building of tensions between the Clinton administration and the Iraqi regime toward the end of the former.

Possible but less probable. As virtually every US president finds his splendid little war, I'd assume that Gore would have had his one as well.

But back on the topic, I assume that an Iraq war without the "distraction" by 9/11 and the ensuing operations in Afghanistan might have been handled better by the US.
 
Possible but less probable. As virtually every US president finds his splendid little war, I'd assume that Gore would have had his one as well.

But back on the topic, I assume that an Iraq war without the "distraction" by 9/11 and the ensuing operations in Afghanistan might have been handled better by the US.

That's possible to. Conversely, Gore's "splendid little war" might be waged instead against Sudan.
 
One side-effect may be that emo music isn't as popular, since young Americans wouldn't need it to proverbially drown their 9/11 sorrows. Pop-punk would probably remain more in the louder, '90s Green Day/Offspring mold for another few years rather than transition to the style of Dashboard Confessional and other emo bands. Jimmy Eat World was already on the rise, though, so this may just be delaying the inevitable. Maybe the two would coexist into the Noughties?

And speaking of Green Day, they probably wouldn't have had the career resurrection that they saw after American Idiot. They may record an album with similar themes, but it won't strike the same chord that they did in OTL -- the young, disgruntled, anti-war listener base that turned it into one of the biggest albums of the decade won't be here this time. They'll likely break up, slide into the mists and remain associated with the mid-late '90s, like Blink-182 did, rather than becoming international megastars.

The culture wars would definitely have been more heated. You wouldn't have 9/11 to help unify socially liberal New Yorkers with religiously conservative Texans as proud, flag-waving Americans, so instead you've got both groups still calling each other godless queer-loving secularists/Bible-thumping bigots. I think you may very well still see a Jesusland map ITTL, albeit a slightly different one. Cultural/moral issues will loom much larger in the 2004 election, rather than national security.

The Fox News Channel is less of a juggernaut, since it can't cash in on 9/11 and War on Terror hysteria. The Daily Show probably would've still continued its track towards more serious reporting, as the seeds for that had been planted with Indecision 2000.
 
One side-effect may be that emo music isn't as popular, since young Americans wouldn't need it to proverbially drown their 9/11 sorrows. Pop-punk would probably remain more in the louder, '90s Green Day/Offspring mold for another few years rather than transition to the style of Dashboard Confessional and other emo bands. Jimmy Eat World was already on the rise, though, so this may just be delaying the inevitable. Maybe the two would coexist into the Noughties?

'Emo' was on the ascension long before 9/11 - look at Get Up Kids, Mineral, etc. The die was cast there by about 1997-1998, even ignoring JEM's success. Now maybe there isn't as much fragmentation and post-whatever core offshoots developing or confusion but it would still probably be relevant for a few years. Now with that said the genre could have experienced a significant decline, and earlier. As it stands I don't think it's as relevant as it was about 4 years ago or so.

And speaking of Green Day, they probably wouldn't have had the career resurrection that they saw after American Idiot. They may record an album with similar themes, but it won't strike the same chord that they did in OTL -- the young, disgruntled, anti-war listener base that turned it into one of the biggest albums of the decade won't be here this time. They'll likely break up, slide into the mists and remain associated with the mid-late '90s, like Blink-182 did, rather than becoming international megastars.

Who says we wouldn't have a war? Besides the PNAC's interest in Iraq there were plenty of problem areas like Sudan that could easily be attacked. Plus you have mounting tensions with China and North Korea early on under Bush's administration. And Gore in the past was quite supportive of invading Iraq and other areas, his main criticism was the lack of international support. So even if the US doesn't have a terrorist attack due to butterflies caused by his election, it could still very well have an unpopular war or several.


The culture wars would definitely have been more heated. You wouldn't have 9/11 to help unify socially liberal New Yorkers with religiously conservative Texans as proud, flag-waving Americans, so instead you've got both groups still calling each other godless queer-loving secularists/Bible-thumping bigots. I think you may very well still see a Jesusland map ITTL, albeit a slightly different one. Cultural/moral issues will loom much larger in the 2004 election, rather than national security.

I'm not sure that would necessarily be true, actually. There was a short term burst of religiosity after 9/11. Also, there was more of a focus on appealing to the Religious Right on certain issues after Bush got elected. Remember that during a lot of the 1990s people were talking about pro-choice Republican candidates like Powell, Wilson, etc. having a real shot in terms of being nominated for President for example. What's the closest to that in OTL after 2001? Giuliani? He did abysmally, though admittedly there were other factors there (personal life, background, other stances, bad campaigning, etc.) and I'm fairly cynical about the RNC's sincerity on social issues for obvious reasons.

The Fox News Channel is less of a juggernaut, since it can't cash in on 9/11 and War on Terror hysteria. The Daily Show probably would've still continued its track towards more serious reporting, as the seeds for that had been planted with Indecision 2000

Debatable, but plausible.
 
Before the war America was going through a Metrosexual moment. Even straight guys were wearing pink shirts. I'd imagine that culture would have lasted longer and we'd have less tattoos.
 
One side-effect may be that emo music isn't as popular, since young Americans wouldn't need it to proverbially drown their 9/11 sorrows. Pop-punk would probably remain more in the louder, '90s Green Day/Offspring mold for another few years rather than transition to the style of Dashboard Confessional and other emo bands. Jimmy Eat World was already on the rise, though, so this may just be delaying the inevitable. Maybe the two would coexist into the Noughties?

And speaking of Green Day, they probably wouldn't have had the career resurrection that they saw after American Idiot. They may record an album with similar themes, but it won't strike the same chord that they did in OTL -- the young, disgruntled, anti-war listener base that turned it into one of the biggest albums of the decade won't be here this time. They'll likely break up, slide into the mists and remain associated with the mid-late '90s, like Blink-182 did, rather than becoming international megastars.

Good point, in fact, i think Sum 41 and the aforementioned Blink 182 would be where Green Day are currently in OTL. Their later albums showed them ditching the frat house humor for more serious stuff (and a more metal-influenced sound for Sum 41). Unfortunately, these shifts were ignored once the green day comeback took root, but with no green day comeback they might have become more noticeable.
 
Bumping this as i wonder what the impact on digital media would be without 9/11? Would stuff like ipods, youtube, and such come earlier, later, or around the same as IOTL?
 
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