American Viking: a timeline
- Thread starter Odinson
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They would use runes, like the old norse. At this time, it's still pretty widely used.
EDIT: Wait, I totally misunderstood the question about the alphabet.
I'd still suspect runes would be used, how many Greenlanders coming over to Vinland would be familiar with anything else? And besides which runes are more convenient to use on birch bark, which would probably be the main medium for writing as it's easier to get a hold of than proper parchment or vellum or whatever else.
Driftless
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The Algonquians didn't have a writing system at this point, correct? So, any written Algonquian (for the present) would be some Vinlanders best estimate of how to convert Algonquian spoken word to written. That concept is a sea-change for communication. In that vein, would they likely use written runes for numerals?
As this proto-empire expands culturally and geographically, the ability to communicate words and numbers in written form will be very important. Old Norse, Latin, Algonquian, other First Peoples languages(?), probably some hybrid creole versions too
As this proto-empire expands culturally and geographically, the ability to communicate words and numbers in written form will be very important. Old Norse, Latin, Algonquian, other First Peoples languages(?), probably some hybrid creole versions too
From my research, I don't think they have a written alphabet. It's most certainly going to be a process for these norsemen!
As for this alphabet, they will be using runes, but they'll use Roman numerals for numbers.
There was no written language used north of Central Mexico. There were some relatively pictographs in use among the Micmac as of the 1700's, but just how early they were used is debated and they were limited to the Micmac alone. Other tribes did have mnemonic devices but nothing that really compares to actual writing.
Couldn’t help but think this was an Easter egg to Sigurd Ross who does the Vikings theme song. If it wasn’t intentional I’ll just happily pretend it was, good update.
Actually, Rolf is a reference to Rolf from the Elder Scrolls V Skyrim. Sigurd, a reference to the n orse hero of myth
The Old Norse versions of the names would in fact have been Sigurðr abd Hrólfr. This was one of the many inaccuracies of Vikings, where everyone was referring to Ragnarr Loðbrók's brother as Rollo, though the Norse should have called him Hrólfr and the French Robert, his christian baptismal name.
Chapter 4
As the humidity of the summer increased, Jarl Snorri Thorfinnsson found himself inspecting the repaired longship. A supply of bog iron had been discovered in the north. This allowed them to repair the ship. However, instead of making a return voyage to Iceland, the crew wished to make a trip down south. In two months time, the ship returned with its crew and some new faces: sixteen members of the Powhatan tribe. These men and women had been captured during the trip down. While Snorri took little issue with it, Thorbjorn Thorfinnsson did. Once word that some of the settlers had taken thralls, the Bishop was apalled. Then, enraged. Thorbjorn resolved to do something about it.
Bishop Thorbjorn strode down to the docks the very next day, holy wrath lurking behind the eyes. The salt of the sea was blown towards him by the winds coming off the cape, the collar of his brown robe starting to crust over. He saw the captain of the ship speaking with some fishermen, likely telling them about the Powhatan tribes to the south. A great bear of a man, Thorbjorn roughly poked him in the back. The captain turned to look at his accuser, only to crane his neck back a couple of degrees to meet the religius leader's gaze.
"What is this that I hear of you taking thralls?"
"I.. I did bring back some thralls. I thought they could help work the lands here."
"You and your crew went raiding, huh? Do you want to upset the balance between us and the skrælings? Eh? You like the idea of a hundred war canoes emerging from the early morning fog and slaughtering and scalping us?"
"We didn't kill anybody, I swear! We traded some goods, some fish, some clothing, and in turn they gave us some plants to smoke and some slaves. No imbalance!" Thorbjorn's eyes narrowed.
"But thralls you did take. Thralls you did not free."
"There... there isn't a law against it here."
"When my father founded this settlement, we were all freemen or karls. No thralls. Perhaps thralldom is still accepted in Iceland or Norway, but this is Vinland. Do you see any other thralls?" The captain stammered, not sure what to say to him. The bishop continued to lecture him.
"I know I've seen you in my church. Tell me, captain. Do you remember which book succeeds Genisis?" The captain looks down, ashamed.
"Exodus," he mumbles softly. Bishop Thorbjorn crossed his arms.
"And I assume you remember what happens in the good book, hm?" Ashamed and frustrated, the captain aggresivly told the priest he was not the leader of the settlement.
"No, I am not the Jarl. But I am the moral leader of Botnborg." The captain and the bishop looked each other in the eye, the others watching. Thorbjorn waved him away.
"Free them by spring, and your soul will be cleansed. But no more bring of thralls, lest you be rejected from my flock." The captain slowly nodded, shame and anger burning inside him as the bishop left to return to his work transcribing the good book into native tongue.
Bishop Thorbjorn strode down to the docks the very next day, holy wrath lurking behind the eyes. The salt of the sea was blown towards him by the winds coming off the cape, the collar of his brown robe starting to crust over. He saw the captain of the ship speaking with some fishermen, likely telling them about the Powhatan tribes to the south. A great bear of a man, Thorbjorn roughly poked him in the back. The captain turned to look at his accuser, only to crane his neck back a couple of degrees to meet the religius leader's gaze.
"What is this that I hear of you taking thralls?"
"I.. I did bring back some thralls. I thought they could help work the lands here."
"You and your crew went raiding, huh? Do you want to upset the balance between us and the skrælings? Eh? You like the idea of a hundred war canoes emerging from the early morning fog and slaughtering and scalping us?"
"We didn't kill anybody, I swear! We traded some goods, some fish, some clothing, and in turn they gave us some plants to smoke and some slaves. No imbalance!" Thorbjorn's eyes narrowed.
"But thralls you did take. Thralls you did not free."
"There... there isn't a law against it here."
"When my father founded this settlement, we were all freemen or karls. No thralls. Perhaps thralldom is still accepted in Iceland or Norway, but this is Vinland. Do you see any other thralls?" The captain stammered, not sure what to say to him. The bishop continued to lecture him.
"I know I've seen you in my church. Tell me, captain. Do you remember which book succeeds Genisis?" The captain looks down, ashamed.
"Exodus," he mumbles softly. Bishop Thorbjorn crossed his arms.
"And I assume you remember what happens in the good book, hm?" Ashamed and frustrated, the captain aggresivly told the priest he was not the leader of the settlement.
"No, I am not the Jarl. But I am the moral leader of Botnborg." The captain and the bishop looked each other in the eye, the others watching. Thorbjorn waved him away.
"Free them by spring, and your soul will be cleansed. But no more bring of thralls, lest you be rejected from my flock." The captain slowly nodded, shame and anger burning inside him as the bishop left to return to his work transcribing the good book into native tongue.
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Alas, even a Viking America cannot escape the original sin of slavery...
To be fair, Thralldom and Native American slavery were significantly different from the chattel ownership slavery that would become synonymous with slavery in the New World.
Also, you could always just say the Algonquin "converts" just figured that converting to this odd, new religion to make these new settlers happy and get better trade deals was worth it. That's also why I don't think the Norse religion really could spread in this world. It's too much of a risk to jump ship from the variety of Native American religions to Norse Paganism and piss off both your neighbors and the Europeans, along with the fact that the Native American religions are already polytheistic. If anything, Norse Paganism is more likely to become "local Native American beliefs but with the names swapped" rather than an actual offshoot of Norse Paganism. The only way I can see Norse Paganism spreading realistically would be if a nation back in Scandinavia converts back to Paganism, which would derail the timeline.
Also, you could always just say the Algonquin "converts" just figured that converting to this odd, new religion to make these new settlers happy and get better trade deals was worth it. That's also why I don't think the Norse religion really could spread in this world. It's too much of a risk to jump ship from the variety of Native American religions to Norse Paganism and piss off both your neighbors and the Europeans, along with the fact that the Native American religions are already polytheistic. If anything, Norse Paganism is more likely to become "local Native American beliefs but with the names swapped" rather than an actual offshoot of Norse Paganism. The only way I can see Norse Paganism spreading realistically would be if a nation back in Scandinavia converts back to Paganism, which would derail the timeline.
Honestly when we look at the Norse settlements of the North Atlantic, a interesting pattern was that because these settlements was ideological decentralized, as they was founded by the losing side from the Norwegian unification, the Church grew into the central power of these settlements. Vinland and Markland are different from these settlements as it’s de facto a eternal frontier, with unlimited room for expansion, but I still think the Church will grow to fill the same purpose in the short term, in the longer run I can see the rise of city states and leagues of city states, which may be in opposition to the secular power of the Church.
How many Norseman initially settled in the New World, and are there going to be any more Norse settlers after that?
Currently: about 257.
And before the end of the century, about 59 more from Greenland will settle here too
Wow, that's tiny. I'd assume that there will be more Greenlanders settling in the New World once the little ice age hits.