Donald Reaver
Donor
Looking at this thread https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-spread-rats-and-cats-to-the-americas.480436/ I can not remember if European rats and cats have been introduced into North America at point.
American Viking: a timeline
- Thread starter Odinson
- Start date
Cats: yes
I haven't thought that much about rats, but I don't believe so. Might have to go back and double check
That is a good question. The Norse calendar is gaining in the Skraeling community, but both are currently still in use. Men of the cloth and tribal leaders are trying to line them up together to make them more compatible.
(Also, I just realized this post was my 2,000th post. Horay!)
Last edited:
Chapter 19
1090: OTL Coastal Massachusetts
Snorri sighed and grunted as he sat beside Astrid's rune stone memorial. Her tomb wasn't far behind it. She had died a long time ago and was buried on a hill overlooking Botnborg.
"Hey, Astrid. Its been a while since I last sat here and spoke, hasn't it?" Snorri sighed again. His hair had gone snow white, his face was a maze of crags and crevices, signs of a long, and at times, hard life. His back was hunched, and his body had gotten lean and thin. He was forced to walk with a pine wood cane to help him along. His eyes, however, were still bright like stars.
"Thorgier has certainly stepped into the roll of jarl. The city prospers. Thorbjorn is gone too but... his legacy lives on. The new bishop, Faltheim, he's done pretty well so far. From what I've heard, he's even talking about canonizing Thorbjorn as a saint." Snorri's smile faded.
"I still miss you, you know. It's... not the same without you. Some days are easier than others." He interlinked his fingers. "I like to think you're proud of how I've lived after you died." He softly smiled as he leaned against the stone.
"I can't wait until I see you again, Astrid. I love you."
With those words, Snorri Thorfinnsson, former Jarl of Botnborg, son of Thorfinn Karlsefni, brother of Bishop Thorbjorn Thorfinnsson, husband of Astrid Liefdottir, and father of Thorgier and Hallfrid, closed his eyes and passed on to the afterlife. The next day, Snorri's body was discovered by a goat herder. Snorri was laid to rest in Botnborg at Saint Jerome Cathedral, and Astrid's remains were moved as well to the site. His funeral was attended to by the Great Sachem and the lesser chiefs, as well as most of Botnborg proper. Centuries later, the Bishop of Botnborg would canonize him as Saint Snorri, the patron saint of peacemakers in the Vinland Church.
(Snorri Thorfinnsson's story is now over. But do not fret, for this is not the end of the timeline. More will follow under new characters. Also, sorry for the shortness, I just didn't know how to wrap up Snorri Thorfinnsson story.)
Snorri sighed and grunted as he sat beside Astrid's rune stone memorial. Her tomb wasn't far behind it. She had died a long time ago and was buried on a hill overlooking Botnborg.
"Hey, Astrid. Its been a while since I last sat here and spoke, hasn't it?" Snorri sighed again. His hair had gone snow white, his face was a maze of crags and crevices, signs of a long, and at times, hard life. His back was hunched, and his body had gotten lean and thin. He was forced to walk with a pine wood cane to help him along. His eyes, however, were still bright like stars.
"Thorgier has certainly stepped into the roll of jarl. The city prospers. Thorbjorn is gone too but... his legacy lives on. The new bishop, Faltheim, he's done pretty well so far. From what I've heard, he's even talking about canonizing Thorbjorn as a saint." Snorri's smile faded.
"I still miss you, you know. It's... not the same without you. Some days are easier than others." He interlinked his fingers. "I like to think you're proud of how I've lived after you died." He softly smiled as he leaned against the stone.
"I can't wait until I see you again, Astrid. I love you."
With those words, Snorri Thorfinnsson, former Jarl of Botnborg, son of Thorfinn Karlsefni, brother of Bishop Thorbjorn Thorfinnsson, husband of Astrid Liefdottir, and father of Thorgier and Hallfrid, closed his eyes and passed on to the afterlife. The next day, Snorri's body was discovered by a goat herder. Snorri was laid to rest in Botnborg at Saint Jerome Cathedral, and Astrid's remains were moved as well to the site. His funeral was attended to by the Great Sachem and the lesser chiefs, as well as most of Botnborg proper. Centuries later, the Bishop of Botnborg would canonize him as Saint Snorri, the patron saint of peacemakers in the Vinland Church.
(Snorri Thorfinnsson's story is now over. But do not fret, for this is not the end of the timeline. More will follow under new characters. Also, sorry for the shortness, I just didn't know how to wrap up Snorri Thorfinnsson story.)
Glad to see you are still working on the TL, the slow personal style has been a welcome change compared to a lot of others TLs I read. It pairs nicely with this highly talked about subject (Norse in the New World).
I am sad to see Snorri go, but it only means new characters to come.
In regards to the TL overall though, will we see broader sort of systemic updates (detailing the political map, technology, culture, etc.) soon? And have things been thought out far into the future? Are the Old World and New staying in separate bubbles till 1492 or will we see contact sooner?
I am sad to see Snorri go, but it only means new characters to come.
In regards to the TL overall though, will we see broader sort of systemic updates (detailing the political map, technology, culture, etc.) soon? And have things been thought out far into the future? Are the Old World and New staying in separate bubbles till 1492 or will we see contact sooner?
Before we jump to the next character, we will have more scholarly updates that show the history/culture of Vinland, including relations with other tribes.
The new world, at least in the current plan, will remain Seperate from the old until 1492.
SpaceOrbisGaming
Banned
Having just read up to the last chapter I just want to say I hope this gets a new chapter soon. I'm not normally the kind of guy for Vikings in the good ole US of A but so far it seems to be fine so far. I hope to see this updated soon.
Next chapter should be out by early March and will focus on history between 1090 and the 1300s, such as trade, expansion, and faith
SpaceOrbisGaming
Banned
No rush I was just saying I'm looking forward to what happens next. Another week of waiting shouldn't be too bad.
Chapter 20
History: Powhatan and Tsenacommacah
Since the reign of Jarl Snorri Thorfinnsson, nordic traders have traveled down the coast of Vinland to Chesepiooc, home of the Powhatan to trade their goods. In return for furs and meats and squash, the settlers from Botnborg traded iron tools, such as knives and axes. In the span of a few years, white man became a regular sight on the coast. In the northern lands under the control of the Wampanoag confederacy, Botnborg began using the white shells of the skraelings as a uniform currency. Traders frequented the bay area often enough that a small rading outpost was built at the mouth of a large river called Powhatani (OTL James River), named for the tribe that dominated the coastal areas. The river allowed access to the interior of the land that the Powahtan called Tsenacommacah. North of the Powhatani river was the epicenter of Powhatan control, the seat of their empire. Controlled by a mamanatowick (supreme chief), the Powhatan exerted control over other tribes in the region and forced tribes on the peninsula that straddled the Atlantic Ocean to pay tribute.
The Norse, Christians who had brought their faith with them from Iceland, brought back tales of the native religion of the southern skraelings back to Botnborg. The Powhatan belived in two chief deities, a good god called Ahone and an evil spirit called Oke. Under these two spirits was a host of lesser spirits. The then Bishop Thorbjorn approved a missionary trip to be under taken by a group of Wampanoag Christian priests to convert the Powhatan to their faith in the 1040s. The Wampanoag priests at first tried to reconcile the Powhatan faith by drawing comparisons between the Norse (and increasingly Wampanoag) God and Ahone. The priests also drew parallels with Oke and Satan. The priests tried to convert the populace. One way that they did this was through reading the Bible in large informal sermons to crowds of interested members of the tribe. One popular subject was the retelling of the story of Adam and Eve with the places of God and the Devil/snake being replaced by Ahone and Oke respectively. In the retelling, the dark spirit Oke took the form of a copperhead and convinced Eve to eat a plum from the Tree of Knowledge, which led to Ahone banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. These missionary practices created conflict with the religious leaders. This angered the shamans of the Powhatan, who felt that this missionaries were trying to influence the tribe and destroy its traditions in addition to erosion of their culture. The shamans tried to convince the mamanatowick to ban missionaries from the north to enter Tsenacommacah. The Mamanatowick instead prohibited Christian missionaries from entering the capital city of the Confederacy, and left the werowances (Male lesser chief) and weroansquas (female lesser chiefs) to decide individually if missionaries could enter their specific domains. While many closed their lands off to them at the suggestion of their shamans, some remained more open to them, resulting in a very small but still existent Christian minority in the region. The first Christian church would not be built in the area until around the year 1100, several years after the death of Bishop Thorbjorn.
Since the reign of Jarl Snorri Thorfinnsson, nordic traders have traveled down the coast of Vinland to Chesepiooc, home of the Powhatan to trade their goods. In return for furs and meats and squash, the settlers from Botnborg traded iron tools, such as knives and axes. In the span of a few years, white man became a regular sight on the coast. In the northern lands under the control of the Wampanoag confederacy, Botnborg began using the white shells of the skraelings as a uniform currency. Traders frequented the bay area often enough that a small rading outpost was built at the mouth of a large river called Powhatani (OTL James River), named for the tribe that dominated the coastal areas. The river allowed access to the interior of the land that the Powahtan called Tsenacommacah. North of the Powhatani river was the epicenter of Powhatan control, the seat of their empire. Controlled by a mamanatowick (supreme chief), the Powhatan exerted control over other tribes in the region and forced tribes on the peninsula that straddled the Atlantic Ocean to pay tribute.
The Norse, Christians who had brought their faith with them from Iceland, brought back tales of the native religion of the southern skraelings back to Botnborg. The Powhatan belived in two chief deities, a good god called Ahone and an evil spirit called Oke. Under these two spirits was a host of lesser spirits. The then Bishop Thorbjorn approved a missionary trip to be under taken by a group of Wampanoag Christian priests to convert the Powhatan to their faith in the 1040s. The Wampanoag priests at first tried to reconcile the Powhatan faith by drawing comparisons between the Norse (and increasingly Wampanoag) God and Ahone. The priests also drew parallels with Oke and Satan. The priests tried to convert the populace. One way that they did this was through reading the Bible in large informal sermons to crowds of interested members of the tribe. One popular subject was the retelling of the story of Adam and Eve with the places of God and the Devil/snake being replaced by Ahone and Oke respectively. In the retelling, the dark spirit Oke took the form of a copperhead and convinced Eve to eat a plum from the Tree of Knowledge, which led to Ahone banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. These missionary practices created conflict with the religious leaders. This angered the shamans of the Powhatan, who felt that this missionaries were trying to influence the tribe and destroy its traditions in addition to erosion of their culture. The shamans tried to convince the mamanatowick to ban missionaries from the north to enter Tsenacommacah. The Mamanatowick instead prohibited Christian missionaries from entering the capital city of the Confederacy, and left the werowances (Male lesser chief) and weroansquas (female lesser chiefs) to decide individually if missionaries could enter their specific domains. While many closed their lands off to them at the suggestion of their shamans, some remained more open to them, resulting in a very small but still existent Christian minority in the region. The first Christian church would not be built in the area until around the year 1100, several years after the death of Bishop Thorbjorn.
Driftless
Donor
Given what you've shown us so far of the Wampanoag version of Christianity and maybe the tweaks that will come with connections to other nations like the Powhatan, North American Christianity seems as though it will develop along different lines than Europe. The reach of European orthodoxy(such as it was....) will have a hard time bridging the Atlantic I think.
Christianity in Vinland (which is the current Norse/Wampanoag term used for all of North America in this timeline) will become more different from Europe in several ways. For example, by the 1300s, I imagine women would be able of holding religious authority in the vein of priests. Botnborg is the center of Christianity so far, but the church in a way is not as unified as say the Papacy is in Europe. Priests in the outer edges play a bit looser with the scripture, opting to use words such as spirits over angels and so forth. Local analogies are being used in place of Biblical objects (such as the outright association of venomous Copperheads with Oke/Satan). I think the farther the faith spreads, the more decentralized it will become as well with Priests even coming to their own conclusions on Biblical messages and meanings when preaching to the Skraelings.
Driftless
Donor
It's been a long time since I did any homework on this topic, but didn't Irish Christianity have a notably different spin following the breakup of the Roman Empire? There was just enough physical separation and ecclesiastical separation for a time, where there were two tracks? Irish and Roman.
Or is that just a flat-out misconception on my part?
Or is that just a flat-out misconception on my part?
Monitor
Donor
As far as I know, no, but the Catholic Church worked hard and fast to make certain that this did not spread and was changed to the Catholic Church... Of course, the circumstances will be drastically different when the other Europeans meet the vinlandians... First of all, far farther away, as well as (likely) far more powerful than the not particularly united Irish
Driftless
Donor
I cite the Irish comparison (at least my wifty view of its form 
), as an example of how quickly things could shift if there isn't a fairly heavy hand of enforcement for what should be the form of a belief system. By what you said above, the Vinland Church is likely to develop on a decentralized form (at least for the near term future). That will be an interesting storyline by itself !
), as an example of how quickly things could shift if there isn't a fairly heavy hand of enforcement for what should be the form of a belief system. By what you said above, the Vinland Church is likely to develop on a decentralized form (at least for the near term future). That will be an interesting storyline by itself !