American slaves Islamic.

I'm just doing a bit of reading was interested in the AH possibilities that the slaves imported into the Americas from Africa came from an area dominated by Islam, but the slaves themselves weren't devout so Islam didn't enter the US by this route.

But WI the slaves, coming from an Islamic area and all, were devout and kept up a strong Islamic faith?
 
That would require a POD affecting the populations that the slavers drew from.

Also, I got some books from the library on Leo's suggestion and something I learned is that there were many Muslim slaves in North America, with a functioning Islamic community on Sapelo Island complete with an imam. Muslim slaves tended to have high positions on the plantation--they viewed themselves as superior to other slaves and wouldn't submit to typical degradation to the point many masters simply gave up.

(One anecdote involved a slave who kept running away until his master found him more agreeable work.)

Thing is, I don't think Islam perpetuated itself very well in the slave communities in North America.
 
That would require a POD affecting the populations that the slavers drew from.

Also, I got some books from the library on Leo's suggestion and something I learned is that there were many Muslim slaves in North America, with a functioning Islamic community on Sapelo Island complete with an imam. Muslim slaves tended to have high positions on the plantation--they viewed themselves as superior to other slaves and wouldn't submit to typical degradation to the point many masters simply gave up.

(One anecdote involved a slave who kept running away until his master found him more agreeable work.)

Thing is, I don't think Islam perpetuated itself very well in the slave communities in North America.
Yeah I mean seriously if most slaves were Islamic I doubt abolitionists would have that much power as OTL. The abolitionists used the Christianity of the slaves to justify the viewpoint but if the slaves are followers of Islam, the same religion most Christians at the time hate. Slavery might not have been lifted.:eek::eek:
 
Yes, I think adding a good dose of religion into the racail differences may have slowed the ending of slavery.

Would the slave owners have tried to forcibly convert Muslims or would they have tolerated their customs?
 
You'd also need a POD affecting slaveholder preferences for non-Islamic slaves.

That would require a POD affecting the populations that the slavers drew from.

Also, I got some books from the library on Leo's suggestion and something I learned is that there were many Muslim slaves in North America, with a functioning Islamic community on Sapelo Island complete with an imam. Muslim slaves tended to have high positions on the plantation--they viewed themselves as superior to other slaves and wouldn't submit to typical degradation to the point many masters simply gave up.

(One anecdote involved a slave who kept running away until his master found him more agreeable work.)

Thing is, I don't think Islam perpetuated itself very well in the slave communities in North America.
 
Yeah I mean seriously if most slaves were Islamic I doubt abolitionists would have that much power as OTL. The abolitionists used the Christianity of the slaves to justify the viewpoint but if the slaves are followers of Islam, the same religion most Christians at the time hate. Slavery might not have been lifted.:eek::eek:

As I recall, 19th Century Christians were not especially hateful towards Islam; most Western Christians were more vaguely curious about it than outright hostile. However, I do agree that non-Christian slaves would make abolition more complicated.

Would the slave owners have tried to forcibly convert Muslims or would they have tolerated their customs?

If, as seems to have been the case in OTL, Muslim slaves become known for being less obedient than non-Muslim ones, then attempts at forcible conversion are likely.
 
Would the slave owners have tried to forcibly convert Muslims or would they have tolerated their customs?

They may have, but I don't recall any mention of that in my books.

Of course, I was moving while halfway through the second one and I returned it without finishing it, so there might have been material there.

It seems to me Islam in the U.S. among the slaves seemed to die on the vine.
 
If, as seems to have been the case in OTL, Muslim slaves become known for being less obedient than non-Muslim ones, then attempts at forcible conversion are likely.

At the same time though, they found Muslim slaves useful for controlling the others. The imam on Sapelo Island was entrusted with arms to fight the British and apparently he kept a lot of slaves from running away during the War of 1812.
 
They may have, but I don't recall any mention of that in my books.

Of course, I was moving while halfway through the second one and I returned it without finishing it, so there might have been material there.

It seems to me Islam in the U.S. among the slaves seemed to die on the vine.
A professor of mine stated that numerous customs that slaves engaged in, such as women wearing headscarves, etc, that on face appeared to the slave owners as harmless were actually derived from Islamic practice. I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion whether or not it remained very important to the slaves themselves.
 
A professor of mine stated that numerous customs that slaves engaged in, such as women wearing headscarves, etc, that on face appeared to the slave owners as harmless were actually derived from Islamic practice. I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion whether or not it remained very important to the slaves themselves.
So maybe a crypto-Islam?
 
A professor of mine stated that numerous customs that slaves engaged in, such as women wearing headscarves, etc, that on face appeared to the slave owners as harmless were actually derived from Islamic practice. I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion whether or not it remained very important to the slaves themselves.

I know I really don't want to get in trouble for arguing with a professor, but women covering their heads is also a Christian practice. In fact, wasn't it quite prevalent throughout the U.S. before the twentieth century?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
1. "Christianizing" the slaves was one of the arguments used to justify slavery.

2. The Europeans traded with the coastal kingdoms, some of them were Muslim, and some were not. The slaves were usually captives from wars or raids, and were usually from further inland. Muslim kingdoms at least tried to (pretended to) follow the Qur'an, and thus they usually conducted their slave raids on non-Muslims, since Muslims were not allowed to enslave other Muslims.
 
I wonder if that would have much impact.

First, Islam was centered mainly around the West African cities. It was more of an urban phenomenon and the countryside was always much more pagan. And it was the countryside that had most of the population and was certainly the area where slavers got their slaves. And of course, Muslims aren't supposed to be selling other Muslims as slaves. Muslim slaves were not even exported to North Africa. So I think the pool of potential Muslims slaves were always going to be small.

Second, even if anyone was Muslim, they would likely not be literate. Someone who was literate in West Africa in that era would have to be a member of the elite, and therefore not really eligible for slavery. That means even though they are Muslim, they are probably very dependant on others for their religion even though they might know a lot orally. There are going to be lots of things that they don't know, and that is going to hurt being able to keep a pure Islam or pass it down through many generations.

Third, simply from a practical aspect, religion gives people a bond that allows them to act collectively. If your intention is to dominate and control people, you are going to do everything you can to prevent that. If Islam provides slaves a way to organize, the slaveowners will try to split up Muslims so they are less dangerous and keep them isolated among other slaves of different beliefs.

Fourth, for a long time slaves had a huge turnover due to dying. They died in less numbers than Indians or indentured Europeans, but there was a huge turnover. That makes a surviving Muslim community very difficult to establish.

Lastly, because of the above, I don't see Islam being sustained for a long period of time. Likely, any such belief will become corrupted and fall into a syncretic religion. We might see some voodoo deities that are based on Allah, Mohammed, or some angels. Or certain things corrupted into a Christian context once slaves were converted. There are going to be about 100-300 years of slavery, and that is a long time for illiterate people, with lots of turnover, and no form of organized community to establish/keep their own separate religion from the people who control them.

Also, 'Roots' is very entertaining, but it is not a true story. It is based on Alex Haley's researches, but it is fiction. Even some of the things Haley claimed was true, probably were not. Do not use it as a historical resource.

So as a thought experiment, you can imagine lots of things if the African slaves were dominantly Islam and kept their faith. But it's not really within the realm of plausibility in my opinion.
 
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