American Silk Road

There is controversial evidence of contact between the two great pre-columbian centers of civilization: the Andes and Mesoamerica. Domesticated Maize is native to Mesoamerica yet it was farmed in the Andes. Cocoa might have evolved in Amazonia (where is still more diverse) but was introduced and domesticated in Mesoamerica. There is still more controversial evidence in common metallurgy styles, cultural quirks, and so on that point that Mesoamerica and the Andean cultures might have traded with each other, probably not directly but by intermediaries in Colombia and Central America.

What if they indeed traded directly? While the Darién Gap is notoriously hostile, if Europeans conquistadores who often made an enemy of everyone they encountered could do cross-continent expeditions, it isn't far fetched that some enterprising merchants with better relationships would try the same. There is also the sea factor. Caribbean canoes were large and advanced and some chroniclers seemingly speak of littoral trade. The Colombian coast is a bit rainy but given enough incentives it could have sea trade.

(maybe the Polynesians could give some expertise to the coastal Andean cultures. They certainly would benefit from more fishing)

So assuming better trade routes, or a delayed discovery of America that makes the Inca and Aztecs (or their successors) to send expeditions Out There, could there be an American Silk Road? What would they trade? Textiles and metal artifacts from the Andes, for sure, and maybe exotic goods such as cocoa, precious stones and feathers from Mesoamerica. In any case the routes seem perilous for trading llamas (an Inca emperor could send them as gifts, but it seems too obsequious and also they might die in the way as hardy as they are) but crops and seeds might work if there is reason for it.

The thing I'm very interested in is the cultural stuff. In the Eurasian Silk Road Europeans and Chinese had little actual contact: for the Europeans China and India were mysterious lands full of monsters and treasure, and at least for the Chinese Europe was a far, cold land full of irrelevant barbarians (I'm generalizing of course). How would the Andeans and Mesoamericans see each other? And here's a key thing: the Andean cultures, the Inca in particular, seemed to lack ***market*** economics and currency altogether, with everything controlled by the local lords (palace economies?), which reached an impressive degree with the Inca state economy. No doubt individual trade existed but to a much lesser degree than in say, Mesoamerica, where from my understanding trade and merchants were a very active part of society and diplomacy.

This brings me to the amusing image of an Aztec trader trying to make a deal with an unflinching Incan apu, or an Incan envoy from the palaces in the high mountains adapting to a rowdy Mesoamerican port in the Caribbean.

Both might appreciate the very interesting coincidence between the Mesoamerican Feathered Serpents and the South American Amarus, though...

And even only discussing OTL, Amazonian and Chaquenian tribes were aware of the Incan empire, and I think North American natives knew about the Mesoamerican cities too. Isn't too far fetched that they might have known each other, as much as Europeans knew that China existed?

I know there is an excellent map and scenario that discusses this, and I never get tired of linking to it (hell I'll probably do it again), but nothing wrong with a new discussion is there?

Anyways, just putting the concept out there. Thoughts?
 
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Chinese geographers did not say that Europe was a land of irrelevant barbarians (in the way that you use the term). Chinese writers explicitly speak of wishing to fly to Rome and discover the grand things that they had heard from trading stories. If anything, European writers show disinterest in China. But anyway, that is only a small aside.

The best way to do this is to create a maritime culture in Mesoamerica and permit its expansion into the Caribbean and henceforth to the Mississippi Valley. After this, such movements may spread across the northern and western coastal regions of South America. This will permit greater trade linkage between the two. It however, would not constitute a land based network. The areas between the Andes and the Mayan zones of influence is notorious for its peril, it is better to simply focus upon maritime routes and create the contact this way.
 
Chinese geographers did not say that Europe was a land of irrelevant barbarians (in the way that you use the term). Chinese writers explicitly speak of wishing to fly to Rome and discover the grand things that they had heard from trading stories. If anything, European writers show disinterest in China. But anyway, that is only a small aside.

The best way to do this is to create a maritime culture in Mesoamerica and permit its expansion into the Caribbean and henceforth to the Mississippi Valley. After this, such movements may spread across the northern and western coastal regions of South America. This will permit greater trade linkage between the two. It however, would not constitute a land based network. The areas between the Andes and the Mayan zones of influence is notorious for its peril, it is better to simply focus upon maritime routes and create the contact this way.

I see: It's been a while since I read about Chinese perspectives on the rest of the world at the time. I really need to read about it again!

Yes, that would be the Maritime Horizon scenario from here. Is there a possibility a maritime revolution could start in the Andes¿ The coastal andean towns were close to the sea and fishing, but the main fishing 'vessels' were the reed made 'caballitos', barely larger than a surfboard. There's little wood to sustain a shipbuilding industry. Maybe in the Pacific coast of Colombia¿
 
What would they trade? Textiles and metal artifacts from the Andes, for sure, and maybe exotic goods such as cocoa, precious stones and feathers from Mesoamerica. In any case the routes seem perilous for trading llamas (an Inca emperor could send them as gifts, but it seems too obsequious and also they might die in the way as hardy as they are) but crops and seeds might work if there is reason for it.
Well, "gift giving" is not necessarily a sign of obsequity. @John7755 يوحنا can correct me on this, since he's much more knowledgable about the time period than I am, but from what I recall this was a fairly standard type of exchange between monarchs in the Bronze Age Near East, i.e. the Pharaoh of Egypt might send a gift to his "brother" the "Great King" of Assyria, who would then send a gift back, etc. etc. Giving gifts to people who are beneath you is degrading, but if they're your equal (more or less) and there's a reciprocal exchange it's just diplomacy.

This could also work around the issues with the Incans perhaps not being so open to private trade--instead of privately trading, you have expeditions in the name of XXX of Mesoamerica, who is certainly the equal of such-and-such of the Andes, who are just there to keep up connections with his brother such-and-such by distributing gifts of XXX's munificence. Of course, reciprocal gifts would be very much desired...and more than likely the expeditions would at least have heavy involvement from private merchants. But formally they're an inter-state exchange, therefore aren't technically private.
 
What if there were a road across the Darien Gap? Legends say the gods built it; the stones came from quarries in Colombia, but little else is known of the original builders: they had iron tools; their numbering system (from the hieroglyphs on the mile marker stele) is not similar to any other regional civilizations and the rest of their writing has still not been deciphered.
 
Well, "gift giving" is not necessarily a sign of obsequity. @John7755 يوحنا can correct me on this, since he's much more knowledgable about the time period than I am, but from what I recall this was a fairly standard type of exchange between monarchs in the Bronze Age Near East, i.e. the Pharaoh of Egypt might send a gift to his "brother" the "Great King" of Assyria, who would then send a gift back, etc. etc. Giving gifts to people who are beneath you is degrading, but if they're your equal (more or less) and there's a reciprocal exchange it's just diplomacy.

This could also work around the issues with the Incans perhaps not being so open to private trade--instead of privately trading, you have expeditions in the name of XXX of Mesoamerica, who is certainly the equal of such-and-such of the Andes, who are just there to keep up connections with his brother such-and-such by distributing gifts of XXX's munificence. Of course, reciprocal gifts would be very much desired...and more than likely the expeditions would at least have heavy involvement from private merchants. But formally they're an inter-state exchange, therefore aren't technically private.

Yes you are correct. It followed a certain “thus sayeth I, your brother: ‘take this necklace inscribed with the name of Horus. It is made of gold, a choice of fine taste, for thee alone my brother...” This sort of thing was between equals and at times kings would send gifts to others under this pretense as a prideful boast, Assyria was famous for doing this. Sending gifts and demanding return gifts despite being at some times a small kingdom in the fringes of Mesopotamia. Do note, gift giving of this form is also an aggressive move as it demands a gift in return. It is often a subtle way to tease at declaration of war and armistice. Quite interesting.
 
To add to what others have contributed, I agree a Mississippi + Caribbean trade network would work best, better than the most obvious Andes to Mesoamerica one. The trading partner north of the Mississippi could have been the Ojibwe, whose most remarkable exploit would have been copper, but who also dealt in maple syrup and wild rice, each product I could see having an impact (although it would resemble more the Spice trade than the Silk route perhaps)

The copper route in particular might eventually lead to a Bronze Age and the trading on tin alongside it (were there any useful tin deposits in the region?)

Such a route would also help develop Mississippian urban centers and Caribbean sailing abilities, which is always a plus.


As to a Mesoamerica-Andes route, I'd say it would have to be by sail in the Pacific. If I recall correctly there Tarascans seem to have either held such contacts or be descendants of such a migration. Should a Tarascan policy rule Mesoamerica and develop the Pacific coast and the sailing abilities there for a while they might be ready to receive an Incan sea expedition (and I believe the Incans already did small-scale expeditions, which would make sense would be expanded in time, and be something similar to the Chinese Treasure Ship as tributary travels around the coast)
 

SwampTiger

Banned
Ecuador was a shipbuilding center during colonial times. Pre-Colombian trade centers have been found here dating to the Formative Period Valdivia culture.

Nicaragua and Honduras were used as trade routes between Pacific and Atlantic polities in addition to Darien. A northern Colombian route is possible.

An early development of sails would help. Evidence of early sails is disputed at the moment.
 
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