American Rio del Oro?

[Kriegdämmerung]

Ok, so most people agree that the Spanish-American War was a definitive victory for America. In the aftermath of the war, the US got control of Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Phillipines, and several Pacific Islands.

My question is: Can the US successfully launch an invasion of Africa so that they can, when the war ends, gain control of Spanish Morocco, Spanish Guinea, and/or the Canary Islands? If so, how and what effects could this have on US participation in WWI?

 

[Thande]

Why, precisely, would the USA want some sand in Africa and a land dispute with Morocco?

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

Why, precisely, would the USA want some sand in Africa and a land dispute with Morocco?

...good point. But think how that looks. The US doesn't just beat Spain, they smash it. Whether Rio del Oro is worth is another story. But what about the Canaries...

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Without some important PoD's earlier on (say, in the 80's/90's), I don't think so. The US made out as a bandit already (Philippines, Cuba, Puerto Rico are no small prizes), but it really didn't have the reach, the manpower, or the military experience to manage a cross-ocean landing.

 

[Thande]

And the European powers would probably not tolerate American intrusion into Africa at this point, especially since the Morocco Question is flaming on the horizon.

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

And the European powers would probably not tolerate American intrusion into Africa at this point, especially since the Morocco Question is flaming on the horizon.

And I'm guessing that might force the US to attempt to form alliances with the nations in Europe. Granted, the US doesn't have the most...developed foriegn policy at this time...

 

[Thande]

And I'm guessing that might force the US to attempt to form alliances with the nations in Europe. Granted, the US doesn't have the most...developed foriegn policy at this time...

I think the Americans would just back down. They're not going to give up their neutrality over the Canaries. Maybe if the Europeans demanded they give up Cuba and the Philippines as well, but I don't think they would, not least because no-one would be able to decide how to divvy them up (see China).

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

I think the Americans would just back down. They're not going to give up their neutrality over the Canaries. Maybe if the Europeans demanded they give up Cuba and the Philippines as well, but I don't think they would, not least because no-one would be able to decide how to divvy them up (see China).

Might this not give the US a Japan-style complex (think after the Sino-Japanese War, the Europeans took land from the Japanese, spawned Japanese policy from 1900-1945)...scary thought.

Why would the Canaries be a problem for anyone other than Spain?

 

[Thande]

Might this not give the US a Japan-style complex (think after the Sino-Japanese War, the Europeans took land from the Japanese, spawned Japanese policy from 1900-1945)...scary thought.

Possible, although the Americans seem a bit isolationist for that. They certainly wouldn't get involved in alt-WW1, though, I bet.

Why would the Canaries be a problem for anyone other than Spain?

Same reason you pondered in the OP - strategically very important for controlling the Atlantic sea routes. If the US put naval bases there, then whose side the US was on in any coming World War would be acutely important.

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

Same reason you pondered in the OP - strategically very important for controlling the Atlantic sea routes. If the US put naval bases there, then whose side the US was on in any coming World War would be acutely important.

Since you seem to be the only one who cares for this thread, who would the US ally with. If the Canaries are important to the Atlantic, and the US needs to send materials and men across the Atlantic to maintain it, would the Entente seem more reliable or what?

 

[Thande]

Since you seem to be the only one who cares for this thread, who would the US ally with. If the Canaries are important to the Atlantic, and the US needs to send materials and men across the Atlantic to maintain it, would the Entente seem more reliable or what?

I assume the US would still be neutral at first. There is no real motivation for the US to join the CPs, so they would either stay neutral or else eventually join the Entente, like in OTL, over German actions towards neutral shipping. Not much difference except antisubmarine warfare probably hits the Germans harder than OTL due to more bases.

If the US could somehow go into the CPs, that's just about the only thing that could realistically starve out Britain like the Germans kept trying to. But I don't see why they would.

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

I assume the US would still be neutral at first. There is no real motivation for the US to join the CPs, so they would either stay neutral or else eventually join the Entente, like in OTL, over German actions towards neutral shipping. Not much difference except antisubmarine warfare probably hits the Germans harder than OTL due to more bases.

If the US could somehow go into the CPs, that's just about the only thing that could realistically starve out Britain like the Germans kept trying to. But I don't see why they would.

Really? I find that unlikely. The British Navy dominates the seas in 1914, even if the US Navy was amazingly good, not saying that having the Canary Islands makes the US militarize, the British could simply go around the Canaries, or hug the coast along French Morocco/Gibraltar. Except for RIo del Oro! OH MY GOD, the CP can win on the high seas!!!

 

[Thande]

Really? I find that unlikely. The British Navy dominates the seas in 1914, even if the US Navy was amazingly good, not saying that having the Canary Islands makes the US militarize, the British could simply go around the Canaries, or hug the coast along French Morocco/Gibraltar. Except for RIo del Oro! OH MY GOD, the CP can win on the high seas!!!

No, I meant that the USN combined with the High Seas Fleet could do it. A large part of the RN is busy bottling up the HSF in port. That means the USN, although it couldn't take on the RN in a pitched battle, can do enough commerce raiding to seriously hurt the trade needed to keep Britain in the war.

Besides the fact that America wouldn't be sending stuff to Britain itself, of course.

This is all highly hypothetical of course because I don't think a CP America is very likely at all...and I'm not a WW1 expert, anyway. Paging P...

 

[black angel]

oh my gods this IS the first thread i posted on AH.com (not the the thread but the same POD and every thing he's said is the same!)

the most American would get without ASB is the Canary Islands. America had trouble with the black that they had, Why would they wish to conquer more? also not a lot worth taking in Spanish Guinea/Spanish Morocco also a trans-Atlantic invation without a forward base can't be done, in fact an amphibious invation had at this point never been done

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

No, I meant that the USN combined with the High Seas Fleet could do it. A large part of the RN is busy bottling up the HSF in port. That means the USN, although it couldn't take on the RN in a pitched battle, can do enough commerce raiding to seriously hurt the trade needed to keep Britain in the war.

Besides the fact that America wouldn't be sending stuff to Britain itself, of course.

This is all highly hypothetical of course because I don't think a CP America is very likely at all...and I'm not a WW1 expert, anyway. Paging P...

No I got the US would need the Hgh Seas Fleet's help. And so what if CP America doesn't work? People supported the CP, and supposing there's no attacks on merchant ships, no Zimmermann Telegram, and no other agressive acts by the CP, I think it could work...

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

oh my gods this IS the first thread i posted on AH.com (not the the thread but the same POD and every thing he's said is the same!)

the most American would get without ASB is the Canary Islands. America had trouble with the black that they had, Why would they wish to conquer more? also not a lot worth taking in Spanish Guinea/Spanish Morocco also a trans-Atlantic invation without a forward base can't be done, in fact an amphibious invation had at this point never been done

Really?

Sorry...

 

[black angel]

Really?

Sorry...

really, it's warms my heart that you came up with it to, i like his man, i like his exceedingly well

NP

any way, what do you boys think can America get the Canaries? if yes, what then?

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

really, it's warms my heart that you came up with it to, i like his man, i like his exceedingly well

NP

any way, what do you boys think can America get the Canaries? if yes, what then?

I honestly didn't know if they could, and from what Thande's said, I guess not. Unless the US gets INCREDIBLY super lucky with a long range amphibious assualt, probably not. But it's still fun to think what could have been...

What do you think?

 

[black angel]

I honestly didn't know if they could, and from what Thande's said, I guess not. Unless the US gets INCREDIBLY super lucky with a long range amphibious assualt, probably not. But it's still fun to think what could have been...

What do you think?

they took the Philippines which is a hell of a lot farther away, the Spanish Navy was WREAK at the time, taking the Islands wouldn't be hard, it's keeping them in the face of a pissed off Europe that'll be hard, but they (i think) could pull it off, though the UK may never talk to the USA again.

 

[Roberto]

they took the Philippines which is a hell of a lot farther away, the Spanish Navy was WREAK at the time, taking the Islands wouldn't be hard, it's keeping them in the face of a pissed off Europe that'll be hard, but they (i think) could pull it off, though the UK may never talk to the USA again.

Well, in the Phillipines, Spain had just lost a painful guerilla war with Filipino rebels, and considered the place a lost cause. Whereas the Canarias are a core part of Spain and home to thousands (millions?) of Spaniards. I don't think Spain would agree to giving the islands up.