American Revolutionary War: British Front

Is there any POD to have the ARW carry on to Britain? I think this would be to see but I can't think of any PODs to cause this.
 

Thande

Donor
If you mean a popular uprising, no; the American rebels initially had a lot of sympathy among the chattering classes (until they allied with the authoritarian French and Spanish, making all their talk of liberty rather hypocritical) but the crown and political system, if not the specific government, remained fairly popular with the classes you really need on your side if you're going to try a revolution.

If on the other hand you mean just having fighting in Britain, that is possible as a French invasion was seriously feared in OTL, prompting Pitt the Elder to make his famous speech about "if we must fall, let us fall like men!" before dramatically collapsing in the House of Lords and dying a few days later.
 
Depending on you willingness to stretch the definition of Britain on the rack until it is a broken, lifeless, gibbering wreck, there was such a front.

Ahem. There has in the past been a similar discussion. In that discussion, certain ignorant citizens of America in particular and certain other non-British lands insinuated, or even stated, that Scotland would have been enthusiastic about an anti-"English" rebellion.

No it would not. If you say so, I will kill your face off. Good day!
 
well, dudes, what bout more raids courtesy of John Paul Jones & other such privateers ? How bout if the Irish were persuaded by Ben Franklin's agents to rise up as well, thereby tying down manhy more redcoats fom being sent to the colonies ?
 
well, dudes, what bout more raids courtesy of John Paul Jones & other such privateers ? How bout if the Irish were persuaded by Ben Franklin's agents to rise up as well, thereby tying down manhy more redcoats fom being sent to the colonies ?

One can hardly call privateer activity a "front".

The Irish thing is... unlikely, but other people can say why far better than I.
 
As mentioned above, I think the best chance for an "English Front" in the ARW was the planned French-Spanish invasion. The Fleet and the Army were actually being collected but a combination of bad weather, disease and just poor planning resulted in the whole thing being called off before a single ship left port. However, at least for a while it was a real possibility and it put a scare into the British.
The effect of even a failed invasion on the remaining part of the war and the subsequent peace negotiations are very interesting and could have either positive or negative consequences for the U.S., depending upon how the British reacted to the invasion.
On the one hand, the political classes and the people might have decided to cut and run from North America in order to build up their home defenses. On the other hand, a Churchillian attitude of "Never give in, never give up, never give an inch" might have taken hold. I simply do not know enough about English politics of the time to venture a guess, but one of our English experts might have a view.
 
As mentioned above, I think the best chance for an "English Front" in the ARW was the planned French-Spanish invasion. The Fleet and the Army were actually being collected but a combination of bad weather, disease and just poor planning resulted in the whole thing being called off before a single ship left port. However, at least for a while it was a real possibility and it put a scare into the British.
The effect of even a failed invasion on the remaining part of the war and the subsequent peace negotiations are very interesting and could have either positive or negative consequences for the U.S., depending upon how the British reacted to the invasion.
On the one hand, the political classes and the people might have decided to cut and run from North America in order to build up their home defenses. On the other hand, a Churchillian attitude of "Never give in, never give up, never give an inch" might have taken hold. I simply do not know enough about English politics of the time to venture a guess, but one of our English experts might have a view.

British.

Ahem. There was a big invasion scare, but logistically speaking it wasn't really possible (where have we heard that before...). I highly doubt a "Churchillian attitude" towards America. That's anachronistic and also differant circusmstances altogether (desperate defense of the homeland vs hopeless war to hold down a people who clearly want independence). The likely result is in fact to encourage a disengagement from NA as soon as possible.
 
Scotland is pretty anti-English, right? What if they uprise? Not so much a fight for liberty and democracy and all that, but just a popular anti-English movement?
 
Though IOTL the want for a uprising wasn't there the best way to get the AR to become a British Revolution would be from within, not abroad. If France lands troops in Britain there would be much of a front to be had, Britain has already lost. If you make the government do some unpopular things at home as well as the Americas you could well get a pan-British rebellion.
 
The 45 is in the past by this point. Scotland will not rise.

Grrrrrrr.

Saying the "Scotland will not rise" implies that we "fell", that our present situation is degraded and inferior to that of the Olden Time. It therefore indirectly implies seperatism, vile scourge of the Scottish Nation.

The '45 was in the past by '46, given how much of a joke it was, but given that it had nothing to do with Scottish seperatism (sure, they wanted to repeal the Union because they wanted to repeal everything since 1688, but the Stuarts had invented the concept of the Union, including the Jack) it's not really relevent anyways.

Scotland is pretty anti-English, right? What if they uprise? Not so much a fight for liberty and democracy and all that, but just a popular anti-English movement?

*Stares at the screen in horror*

*Horror flashes into rage, then hardens into a look or grim determination*

*Gets up from computer, dons coat, and slings bag of essentials over shoulder*

*Walks down the street, looking to neither side, footsteps mechanical*

*Catches the bus to Glasgow. Sits in silence.*

*Boards a ship sailing for New York*

*Jumps ship on the inward passage and swims ashore, past customs*

*Purchases a phonebook with British pounds and a knife*

*Finds Solomaxwell*

*Phones him and traces it using dastardly hacker-type equipment*

*Goes to Solomaxwell's house, becoming increasingly nervous, breathing strained*

*Rings the doorbell*

*Fingers knife*
 
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It's seriously doubtful if the Jacobites could have raised a credible army in Scotland by the 1750s. There's no chance whatsoever that they could have done so in the 1780s.
 
It's seriously doubtful if the Jacobites could have raised a credible army in Scotland by the 1750s. There's no chance whatsoever that they could have done so in the 1780s.

A) What Jacobites? I don't think anyone is going to voice that opinion after 45.

B) What the hell would a Jacobite rebellion have to do with the ARW?
 
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